HRchat Podcast

Employee Wellness and Ways to Measure Culture w/ Dr. Mary Marzec, Virgin Pulse

• The HR Gazette • Season 1 • Episode 227

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In this HRchat, we will discuss the importance of organizational culture and ways to measure it. The guest this time is Mary Marzec, Senior Strategy Health Scientist at Virgin Pulse.

Listen to this episode to get Mary’s take on how tech can help corporate wellbeing efforts and why measuring the effectiveness of your company culture is key to achieving investment-driven results like high job performance, resilience, and reduced healthcare costs.

Listen to this episode and discover:

  • How can organizations start building a supportive culture of wellbeing? 
  • How can organizations maintain a strong company culture and employee engagement during these difficult times? 
  • How can organizations establish a sense of culture with a dispersed workforce?
  • In general terms, VOI measures the impact that the wellness program has on employees through increased productivity, higher employee morale, and a reduction in absenteeism. Why does VOI matter?
  • In what ways have organizations’ ROI and VOI been impacted since COVID-19 forced many employees to begin working from home?







We do our best to ensure editorial objectivity. The views and ideas shared by our guests and sponsors are entirely independent of The HR Gazette, HRchat Podcast and Iceni Media Inc.   


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Speaker 1:

Welcome to the HR chat podcast, bringing the best of the HR and talent communities to you. Welcome to another episode of the HR chat show. I'm your host today, bill Banham. And in this HR chat, we're going to discuss the importance of organizational culture. My guest, this time is Mary Mazak, senior strategy, health scientist from Virgin pulse. Listen to this episode to get married, his take on how tech can help corporate wellbeing efforts and why measuring the effectiveness of your company. Culture is key to achieving investment driven results like hydro performance resilience, and reduced healthcare costs. Mary, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much, bill. It's good to be here.

Speaker 1:

Well beyond my wee introduction there, maybe you can take a minute or two now and tell our listeners a bit more about your career background and your current role.

Speaker 2:

Sure. Um, I am dr. Mary Marsak. Um, I've been in the field of wellness for well over 15 years now and my real, my real focus and interest is looking at how the company's culture, uh, supports health and wellness, and also how that resonates through and the impact on the larger piece of company culture. So that's my specific focus though. Um, you know, I really focus, I also think a lot about just wellness in general and how organizations can impact people's health and wellbeing.

Speaker 1:

Okay. Thank you very much. Now that I'd love for you to start this conversation today by helping our listeners get their heads around a couple of concepts. Okay. One that I'm sure they're very familiar with. And one maybe that maybe they've heard of before and perhaps some folk out there haven't heard. Um, and that's the, uh, the idea of ROI and VUI how do the two work together to create a clearer picture of the success of the well-being program?

Speaker 2:

Right. We're jumping right into this here. Um, so ROI and DOI are terms that are thrown around quite a bit in conjunction with wellbeing programs. And it's very important to sort of back up and think a little bit about how this works and how this does fit into not just your wellness program in terms of measuring effectiveness of it, but also how that fits right into the company's culture. And when I think of culture, I really think of it as the manifestation of the company's identity, values and priorities, um, as experienced on a day-to-day basis. And then your wellness programs, um, have the huge opportunity to enhance that as, um, how that the company actually cares about people more than just the job that they do. Um, but that they value that it values people, um, in their, in their whole life and in a holistic way, socially, physically, emotionally, even financially, those are all huge role of wellness programs. So I'm getting to your actual question as to the role of ROI and VUI in that you really want to think at it from that perspective, and then your return on investment, which is typically the medical costs, uh, productivity like absenteeism or presenteeism what's thought of as those hard numbers, um, are actually lagging indicators of the success of your wellbeing programs. So you want to have a high performing wellbeing program on the front end, in order to get at those ROI numbers on the backend. Now VUI is a little bit different. And again, it's a term, you know, that we hear a lot in the wellbeing space and it's used to refer to, um, what are those other maybe less tangible, uh, but just as important, uh, benefits of having a wellbeing program that people feel valued, they feel more engaged. They feel, um, more positive about the company that they work for because that company is offering these benefits that support them as people. And so again, you really need a high performing effective, uh, comprehensive holistic I'll. I can keep going on with the list wellbeing program to begin with to get those, uh, impacts and effectiveness on the downstream then that you're looking at. And that's really where I come in in terms of measuring culture.

Speaker 1:

Okay. Thank you very much. And I'm sure we'll talk a little bit later on about how, how the current circumstances, how the pandemic has shaped things as well, because, um, I think now more than ever, it's pretty important that, uh, companies are measuring that via ROI. And some perhaps feel like they've got, have a heart, a high general profit and good ROIs in different places before they start looking at their wellness programs, which is actually the wrong way to look at things. Um, and there are a lot of financial benefits to having great wellness programs in place, but I'm getting ahead of myself. Um, before we get there, can you share some insights and data around some of the ROI relating to Virgin pulses clients?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So, you know, the good thing about Virgin is that I think of it as a one-stop shop in a way that our, um, well, the way our wellbeing programs are set up in that they're inherently accessible, they're effective in terms of being science-based and evidence-based, and through the book of our book of business. So we have, we know they work because of the amount of time that they've been out there and you know, that clients have been using them and coming back to us year over year, they're accessible. And so that's the other piece I look for. Is it effective? Is it accessible? And can you align it with your larger culture culture? Is it customizable in terms of what you want to offer? If a company wants to focus on safety and weave that in to the, to the experience seamlessly, they have that capability. So all of those add to the DOI and the individuals experience. Now, I'm not sure if I exactly answered your question. So feel free to delve a little bit more, um, if you need more information.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you, Mary. I may do just that actually. Um, let's, let's keep talking about ROI too. Talk to me a bit about how ROI can impact one's health.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's another, Oh, that's a great question. So a lot of times companies think about ROI from the bottom line perspective of their healthcare costs and so on, like I alluded to earlier, however, it's really a missed opportunity to also think about the ROI for the individual, which is X, which is very different because for example, if somebody starts exercising and eating better, um, they get off their blood pressure medication. Well, blood pressure medications inherently are not that expensive accompany. Won't see that, um, on their bottom line of say 50,000 employees, but for the individual, when you look at, um, the not, not the need to re re you know, renew prescriptions trips to the doctors, um, just the mental space of am I taking my medication every day, um, that ROI and the impact on their license, huge, probably in measurable. So that's a very small example of how the ROI for the individual is very different than that of the company.

Speaker 1:

Okay. We are going through a lovely dialogue and a lovely journey together today. Mary I'm enjoying this because we are spelling out these concepts very clearly in a step-by-step approach before we get into hard hitting questions. Um, just one more question around definitions, if you don't mind, or certainly to kind of spell it out for our listeners, um, to, to, to drive it home in, in general terms, why does Boi matter?

Speaker 2:

The Alma VUI matters? Um, it's essentially a construct created by even wellness programs and companies, but what are we really thinking about in terms of value on investment? In my mind, you're really, you're really measuring as best as possible. Does my company care about me? Am I more than just a number? And the answer to that has to be yes for companies that want engaged and high performing employees. And we think of medical costs is being very expensive, but if you look at the cost of term high turnover, especially nowadays in these knowledge based industries, which almost all companies are because we're increasingly technologically advanced, um, the cost of turnover and losing talent and attracting talent is very significant. Um, they say, you know, the, you think about hire hiring process that takes away time when a good team member leaves, it hurts and puts strain on the remaining individuals and turnover can actually be contagious in the sense that when one employee leaves others start thinking, Oh, well, maybe I can find a better deal too. Um, so that, you know, when you think about Boi from that perspective, in terms of, uh, culture and the value of engaging people and providing them a great place to work, um, it's huge.

Speaker 1:

I think thank you very much. Now I'd love for you to share with our, with our listeners, your thoughts around ways that organizations can start building a supportive culture wellbeing. How does this help to increase employee engagement and decrease what you're talking about just a moment ago, which is turnover.

Speaker 2:

It actually isn't as hard as it sounds, culture seems like a very big nebulous thing to influence. If you think about it in terms of it's the manifestation of all the physical and social influences on our lives and behaviors at work, you know, workplace culture, but in terms of your wellness programs, I like to break it down into very specific domains that are actually easy to measure. One is leadership support, do leaders, um, support, do they even know about what wellbeing programs are offered? So many times wellness, uh, sits in the realm of HR and it almost doesn't get out of that silo, but the difference if you have senior leadership engaged and supportive and, um, encouraging people, you know, the difference that that makes for your wellness program alone is huge. Second managers support your managers, encourage healthy behaviors, and do they participate in the wellbeing programs and promote them? Um, third is your policies, everything that people want to do in terms of their healthy behaviors, it needs to be surrounded by policies and an environment that supports them. You know, when people are, you know, I know more and more are working remote, but when people were at the physical space and many still are, um, are there healthy food options available and so on. And then, um, do people practice and encourage, you know, do my coworkers practice healthy behaviors. So it's very easy to actually, if you think about culture and break it down into these layers, um, then it's very easy to think about and, um, actually measure. And so a company can see how they're doing and influence them.

Speaker 1:

And you, you mentioned just there, uh, the big elephant in the room, uh, the biggest factor impacting everybody's lives this year. Uh COVID in, in what ways of organizations, ROI and Boi being impacted since the pandemic forced many employees, most employees to begin working from home.

Speaker 2:

Right. Um, and I think this offers a huge opportunity for companies to support employees and emphasize health and wellbeing. Um, and I believe that, um, you know, even post COVID, this level of flexibility will probably be sustained in the workplace, as people have found benefits from the ability to have greater, uh, work-life integration.

Speaker 1:

Okay. So, um, have, have you noticed a, uh, a lowering in VRI as a result of, uh, of the pandemic?

Speaker 2:

You know, I'm not sure there's been a lowering of the DOI. I think that companies are leaning more into wellbeing programs because it's a couple of reason. Um, one is that one of the dynamics of COVID itself is that outcomes. It looks like we don't know all that we need yet, certainly, but, um, one of the predict, you know, one of the comorbidities of heart disease and diabetes and obesity, these chronic conditions are significant predictors of lower outcomes for COVID. So that has led to, I think, a nice confluence of perspectives in that people are more aware of their health and employees are more willing to, you know, even leaning into wellbeing programs even more to help people mitigate these risks. So that's one, um, I dunno if you want to call it a silver lining along this whole COVID thing, I really want to be very careful and not paint COVID in a positive light, because it has been, you know, just so overall devastating, but in any situation where change is required, I think there are positives that can be drawn from it and learnings. Um, and so in that sense, I feel like hopefully people feel that companies are valuing their wellbeing more than before, where it might've been taken for granted. Um, another piece is that companies are offering greater flexibility around family care, hopefully, and just the measures taken to protect people from COVID directly, um, has highlighted the importance of employees and their role in an organization as never before. So I think those are all things that have actually increased to Boi in terms of, um, you know, employees, health and wellbeing, if we're seeing it in the numbers yet. I think it's too early to tell.

Speaker 1:

Okay. Okay. Thank you. Uh, and what about, what about the sense of company culture and employee engagement at the moment? Uh, that's a bit of a toughie, isn't it? Okay. Yes. You can, you can help your employees through wellness programs. You can go the extra mile there and ensure that they get childcare, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Right. Um, but maintaining a strong sense of what that company culture is for its individuals, for its component parts and therefore to have to have cohesive and good levels of employee engagement. That's, that's, that's a big challenge for companies right now. Um, and a lot of employees frankly have zoom fatigue, you know, and it's, and they, they say, perhaps it's not quite the same as being in a room and learning from osmosis and all the rest of those wonderful things. Um, how do you companies go about trying to get that strong company culture and keep feeding those employee engagement initiatives when, when are remote and they've got a lot of other stresses going on.

Speaker 2:

You're exactly right. Um, I hadn't heard the term zone to cake, but that is something that I'm definitely seeing among my clients as well. And it isn't just companies that are striving to maintain their culture and that sense of togetherness with employees being remote or in disparate locations, not together in groups at all anymore. Um, but supervisors and management teams are also struggling. So I'll back up to the larger point of the company culture. And how does a company, you know, what are some, some helpful things that a company can actually do? Uh, one, I think town hall meetings, um, with the CEOs and senior leadership talking about their vision and plans and having a robust Q and a giving people that sense of stability in their jobs as much as is realistic and relevant, depending on the, um, the situation for that company. And I think that is one extremely helpful way to, you know, get that sense of company culture and vision and mission and including wellbeing in that you can have a moment. You can have meditation, you can have, I know one company that leads all of their all company meetings with, uh, warmups. So in that 15 minutes that people log on before the meeting actually starts, they, they do exercises together. Some other ways that a company can help is by supporting charities and allowing people perhaps to donate their rewards or just participate in things that are in their community, um, that supported by their company. Another thing that companies are doing are things like virtual 5k days where you'll have a start time and an end time, and everybody does it from wherever they are, but you sort of have that sense of togetherness. I think that's a great idea. Um, teams chat, um, is one sharing ideas through chat, having those channels back and forth. I don't think anything totally replaces the in-person piece, but those are some ideas because we just have to deal with the reality that we have right now.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. I, I agree. Um, so, uh, interestingly yesterday, the, the prime minister of Canada came on on TV and he said, you know, the reality is right now, things suck and they're gonna suck for a bit longer. Um, but we can, we can try and be positive and we can take new lessons and we can find new ways to engage and communicate with each other right now. And hopefully it's just going to make us stronger in the long-term, but in the long term, marry some employees that they might want to continue working from home. Um, so after the, of the worst of the pandemic has passed, perhaps they've gotten used to an extent of, of remote or disparate working. Um, how might, how might that impact company culture? You know, if, for example, um, only 40% of your, your employees are going to be in the office, anyone point, because I've been given that flexibility, maybe, maybe the pandemic is going to be around for a bit longer, and there's going to be some more cautionary measures even after your vaccine comes through. But regardless people have got, got used to working remotely, at least maybe they want to do that for a few days a week, but that's going to, that's going to cause big, uh, pressures on, on those who are trying to instill the company culture and keep that camaraderie going right.

Speaker 2:

Well, the way I see it, it's just a shift. It becomes a positive shift in the company's culture. Some of the best company cultures always have had flex time and that capability for employees to work from home two days a week. So now instead of it taking away from the company's culture, it actually adds as a benefit to the culture, I think is, is one answer to that. Um, so we stopped thinking of it as just because people aren't here in person, they're not part of the company, or they're not contributing to the culture because actually work at home has existed for, you know, a couple of decades now. So that part isn't new. I think what's going to be new is the level of people that, um, expect that flexibility when they look at jobs. And so that again will be a, um, almost a self fulfilling prophecy that is people expect it companies more and more will be offering it in order to attract and retain that talent.

Speaker 1:

Mary, you're not gonna believe this, but we are pretty much out of time before we wrap things up. Uh, how can, how can our listeners connect with you, whether that's through LinkedIn or email or elsewhere, and also how can they learn more about all the awesome things that you do over at Virgin pulse?

Speaker 2:

Sure. So you're more than happy to, um, I'm on LinkedIn, so more than happy to look me up there. Um, my email I'm certainly available by email, um, Mary dot marsak@virginpulse.com or simply contact our, um, our marketing department, um, you know, through the Virgin pulse, more information type thing. Um, you know, any number of ways at some point, somebody, you know, he'll get to me

Speaker 1:

Any number of ways. I'm sure we'll throw a few of those in the show notes as well. Well, that just leads me to say for today, Mary, thank you very much for joining me on this episode of the HR chat show.

Speaker 2:

Thank you so much. It's been a great time together. Great conversation. Thank you.

Speaker 1:

And this and this as always until next time be working and stay safe. Thank you for listening to the HR HR design.

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