In our latest episode, Dani Saadu, Head of People and Culture at Wavemaker unlocks the secrets to transformative workplace learning.
Listen as Dani and Bill Banham dissect the value of in-person training and its impact on organizational success and discuss the nuances of employee development.
Dani - co-author of the new book, The CAPEX Formula for Learning and Performance: Mega-trends driving the new world of work, learning, skills, and HR- also unpacks how face-to-face interactions foster trust and rapport, which are foundational for performance.
Questions for Dani include:
More About Dani
Dani reports into the COO to execute the Global Wavemaker and GroupM UK People strategies, working closely with EXCO and the leadership team. Dani sits on the London Advisory Group to support Common Purpose with their London initiatives on future Leadership programs for early career talent and sustainability programs.
Prior to joining Wavemaker Dani held numerous senior roles spanning People, Talent, and Culture. He has worked across the private and public sectors.
We do our best to ensure editorial objectivity. The views and ideas shared by our guests and sponsors are entirely independent of The HR Gazette, HRchat Podcast and Iceni Media Inc.
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In our latest episode, Dani Saadu, Head of People and Culture at Wavemaker unlocks the secrets to transformative workplace learning.
Listen as Dani and Bill Banham dissect the value of in-person training and its impact on organizational success and discuss the nuances of employee development.
Dani - co-author of the new book, The CAPEX Formula for Learning and Performance: Mega-trends driving the new world of work, learning, skills, and HR- also unpacks how face-to-face interactions foster trust and rapport, which are foundational for performance.
Questions for Dani include:
More About Dani
Dani reports into the COO to execute the Global Wavemaker and GroupM UK People strategies, working closely with EXCO and the leadership team. Dani sits on the London Advisory Group to support Common Purpose with their London initiatives on future Leadership programs for early career talent and sustainability programs.
Prior to joining Wavemaker Dani held numerous senior roles spanning People, Talent, and Culture. He has worked across the private and public sectors.
We do our best to ensure editorial objectivity. The views and ideas shared by our guests and sponsors are entirely independent of The HR Gazette, HRchat Podcast and Iceni Media Inc.
Feature Your Brand on the HRchat Podcast
The HRchat show has had 100,000s of downloads and is frequently listed as one of the most popular global podcasts for HR pros, Talent execs and leaders. It is ranked in the top ten in the world based on traffic, social media followers, domain authority & freshness. The podcast is also ranked as the Best Canadian HR Podcast by FeedSpot and one of the top 10% most popular shows by Listen Score.
Want to share the story of how your business is helping to shape the world of work? We offer sponsored episodes, audio adverts, email campaigns, and a host of other options. Check out packages here.
Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's most downloaded and shared podcasts designed for HR pros, talent execs, tech enthusiasts and business leaders. For hundreds more episodes and what's new in the world of work, subscribe to the show, follow us on social media and visit HRGazettecom.
Speaker 2:Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show. I'm your host today, bill Bannum, and in this episode we're going to talk about everything to do with learning and employee performance. Joining me on this episode is Danny Sardu, head of people and culture over at WaveMaker, where he reports into the COO to execute the global WaveMaker and Group M UK people strategies. Working closely with Exco and the leadership team, danny sits on the London advisory group to support common purpose with their London initiatives on future leadership programs for early career talent and sustainability programs. And today, as we record this episode today, danny has just released his very first book. It's called Cap X Factor for Learning and Performance. It's going to be a number one best seller. I'm sure Danny's a lovely human being and it's my pleasure, danny, to welcome you to the show today.
Speaker 3:That is one of the nicest and pleasurable introductions I've ever had, so I'm grateful. Thank you very much, Bill, and it's a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2:So it's sometimes you meet someone and you know straight away that you like this person and you're going to hit off with them. This is only the second chat that Danny and I have had, but on the back of our first conversation, Danny's one of my new friends. He's a good guy. I'm looking forward to doing those cool things with him, including what we speak. Well, absolutely, you are a good human being and Danny's going to be speaking at Disrupt London on March 20th, so be there or be a reminder when you can look forward to it. It's going to be good.
Speaker 1:Ascendium is on a mission to make education and training beyond high school a reality for learners from low income backgrounds, and we're pleased to support this episode of the HR Chat Show. Earning a credential certificate or degree has the power to transform a person's life. It can lead to financial stability, a fulfilling career and a stronger community. Ascendium works to create opportunities for learners from low income backgrounds to achieve that transformation. Learn more at ascendiumeducationorg. And now back to the show.
Speaker 2:It is almost an impossible question to answer, but I'm going to try anyway and then pose it to you Online learning versus in person? Would you say that the technologies available today to employees mean that online learning can be as effective as in person? I have my doubts. I believe that if you're in the room with someone, they'll pick up on your body language, a whole bunch of other things, and it's probably still going to be more effective. But maybe I'm being old school about it. What's your take?
Speaker 3:My take is really simply you cannot beat face to face learning. There is no learning available that beats in the room, present learning and feeling someone's energy, building trust, building rapport and delivering impact and challenge in someone's thinking. Technology now is so good that you can interact with people and connect with them across the world, but it is not the same, and I think for me. So let me give you an example. We're talking now virtually through this podcast. I can see you via kind of a Teams kind of Zoom kind of application. Imagine, if we're in the same room now having this conversation, how that might be different in terms of energy and bars and everything else. So I've met you a couple of times now, virtually, but I've not actually met you face to face. And instantly, the moment we see, there'll be a completely different dynamic. I'll be able to see full your height, how you are, the energy, what mannerism to say, whether or not you're a hugger or not, whether or not I should shake your hand.
Speaker 3:There's just so much more things you can pick up and read and connect with. When you are face to face with somebody, you have so much more information to work with and therefore you can mirror and harmonize with someone that you just can't do online. And if you actually take the data, a lot of learning professionals feel that the younger generation don't want face to face learning. They feel that, yeah, the younger generation are all about digital, they prefer it digitally. But actually there is data to show younger people in the workforce, in the workplace, want face to face learning. They prefer it, it's better for them and actually they realize they get more from it. So you'd be surprised. So I am very much in that school of thought. I think we think we're on the same viewpoint on this bill.
Speaker 2:By the way, danny, when we do meet in person, based on what you just said, I'm just going to come up to you and give you a big hug. Okay, let's talk about your book. Why don't you take a couple of minutes and give our listeners an overview of CAPEX Factor, learning and Performance, and why it is the best book released in the last 10 years? Thank you very much.
Speaker 3:So it is a book that I co-wrote with a very good friend of mine, kevin Bacalpin. It's the first time I've written a book. It's the third or fourth time he's written a book so he took me on this amazing journey of kind of writing a book for the first time, and the book is about how you can use learning to really drive the performance of an organization and then correlating it to driving a really good organizational culture. And the CAPEX Factor is an acronym that stands for a formula. So the C stands for culture, the A stands for adaptability, the P stands for profitability, the E stands for exception and the X stands for X Factor, and the book kind of talks through that formula and acronym to talk about how you can use each of those components to drive the best learning an organization can see and also how that directly relates to an organization performing better and therefore having a better culture as a result.
Speaker 3:We've got some amazing testimonials and case studies from major companies, in part of FTSE 100 companies, in terms of the thumb, some of the things they're doing and that's in this space regarding the CAPEX Factor, and also some personal examples of organizations I've worked in, and what I like about the book is that all the things that are in there are highly practical and things people can just take into their business and easily implement, and that's something that's very important for me and Kevin.
Speaker 3:We don't want to be creating a book that has this kind of magical, complex formula to try and outthink or make things complex for people. It's just really simple stuff that when you read it you go, oh my God, I could take that and just implement it in my organization and I could see it having an impact. So if you like things simple and practical and state of the art in terms of innovation in this space, then definitely it's a book to read, I think the last thing I'd say we also have a major section within the kind of stems through the book around the use of AI and technology to enhance learning, which is something I'm very passionate about as well.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna ask you a bit more about AI, machine learning, specifically in a minute. Before we get there, talk to us a bit about the ROI. So what is the best way for learning to demonstrate the ROI? I have a lot of conversations on this show where Leaders certainly a little bit skeptical about L&D programs within their organizations and how they actually translate to the bottom line. So what's your take?
Speaker 3:My take is that if you are doing learning that is soft skill based and around interpersonal skills, it can. It is very difficult to show ROI Because it's soft skills, yeah, and it's difficult to kind of put a number on. I'm now better, have more emotion, intelligence, you can now improve and deliver and communicate better and and be a better you know person in terms of what kind of my behavior and that, and that's why you know we talk about this in the book and also something that's a massive passion of mine is that Learning and development should definitely cover that, but it should be more than that. You need to think about what are the kind of core metrics and levers and skills that people need that are driving commerciality and profitability within your organization. So, whatever the core skills are that you know absolutely that if you, if you, were to develop upskill, that would have a direct relation to the profitability and Success of delivery of the organization. That is what you should be focusing on as a learning professional.
Speaker 3:When a lot of learning teams do, is they just focus on the traditional LND?
Speaker 3:Yes, we do management, we do leadership, we do soft skills, and that is all very important and critical, but also you have to do learning that is more technical, that is more business orientated, that speaks the language of our leaders in operations if you want to be successful and deliver on ROI.
Speaker 3:So I don't say too much, but so, for example, when I've kind of managed learning teams, one of the one of the areas I've kind of dive my teams into doing is focusing we become experts in things like agile ways of working, lean methodologies, project management, so we can actually dive in and help teams set up, give them the theory, coach them and then get them on their way to actually start delivering a project and delivering output and work and making and Actually helping them to deliver work faster and showing that our intervention of getting a team together, training them on project management fundamentals and operational delivery fundamentals and how quickly they deliver a project, is quicker if we intervene than if they're left to do on their own, so that, for example, just see what I mean that there is strong ROI and you can only do that if you become an expert or you understand the world of these, these teams that are called delivery.
Speaker 3:So you have to become an expert in their area. So that's where you can show you know, you know ROI and profitability, and then commercially on the learning that you're doing. You can't just do it. Do it delivering traditional LND.
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Speaker 2:Where is AI and machine learning fitting into all of this then, danny? So I would imagine these days is pretty easy to create a nice curriculum by by using different generative AI technologies, and then you can develop that out and edit it and whatnot, and it only takes a fraction of the time that it did before. But in terms of the delivery, I bet there's there's still a very important human element there, 100%. Where's the AI fitting in? Tell us more.
Speaker 3:So for me, because of the fact that People's expectation and demand for things have increased because you can think everything's at your fingertips, and the fact that People, organizations, a lot of organizations expect you to do more with less, ai allows you to save time, to be more efficient, to take wealth of data and and analyze it really quickly and bring it back to you and and and analyze it really quickly and bring it, pull out trends, themes and insights that will help you move forward, and it just it allows you to kind of deliver work with a small resource and kind of double quadruple enzymes as the output that you put out there. But you just need to know how to use it for comfortable to use it. Ask the AI the right questions and be really clear on your goals and outcomes, and AI will help you get there in half the time or in three thirds of the time, and that, surely, is a good thing. If we're not embracing that as learning professionals, you'll be left behind. That's one. Another thing as well is that the other thing as well that AI can do is that can help people get information really quickly in the moment.
Speaker 3:So there's this terminology that I like to use called learning in the work. It's learning in the flow of work. So learning in the flow of work and what that is is when you are in the flow of working and you know, when you're kind of in the middle of working, you're engaged and you're working and you're kind of everything's shutting out and you're kind of doing your work and getting on it. There are times when you hit a stumbling block. When you're in that flow of work where you go, I actually don't know the answer to this or I don't know what to do next, and what you wanna do is come out of it really quickly, really efficiently, for five, 10 minutes, get the answer you need and then come back again into the flow of work and continue on, and AI is able to do that really well. I've got a really burning question. I'm not an expert at this, but if I could go and research thousands of literature and get a real an answer in a quick, really quickly to kind of help me move on here, why wouldn't I do that? Or why wouldn't I go and ask that? And AI allows you to do that really well. That doesn't mean so listening to this, people might be thinking well then, what's the job of a learning professional that helps people to do stuff in the flow of work.
Speaker 3:There is a time where you hit a stumbling block. It doesn't matter whether you ask AI, whether you ask you know or you seek the knowledge. There are times, actually, when you need different forms of learning. You need learning imparted to you. You need knowledge imparted to you. You need to bounce on idea of somebody. You need social learning. There are times when you need to step out of that flow of work and it's when you step out of that flow of work that you need to ensure you're delivering the best form of learning. So people then realize, actually, that was really useful and that was really beneficial, taking the time out to come out of the flow of work to get this learning. But it's got to be a really high quality or people won't come to you if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:It does, it does. Thank you very much. We've got two minutes here left and I know you've got a hard stop, so I'm gonna ask you two more questions and I'm gonna challenge you to answer each in 60 seconds or less. So my maths needs that two minutes. First of those two questions is, as I mentioned earlier, ron, you will be speaking at the Disrupt London event Disrupt London 19 on March 20th. You and I haven't spoken about this before, so I don't know if you got an answer, but maybe you could share with our listeners a little bit about what you're thinking about speaking about that event, or if you haven't given it that much consideration yet, danny, okay, because otherwise I'd say what type of energy should they expect from you? So go ahead, tell us a little bit about it.
Speaker 3:So it will literally be a quick summary, because I know Disrupt London, you've got to speak really quickly in a certain amount of time is gonna be a quick summary about how you can use AI to be a better learning professional.
Speaker 2:And just finally for today, then how can our listeners connect with you and how, of course, can they get a copy of your book?
Speaker 3:They can connect with me on LinkedIn. My name is Danny Sardis, so it's D-A-N-I-S-W-A-D-U. I'm the only Danny Sardis on LinkedIn spelled that way, so you would find me, and I'm very active. I love interacting with people online and LinkedIn and helping people and them helping me, and you'll see on my homepage, on my profile page, there is a post about my book. If you kind of send me a message or DM me or you want the book, I can send you the link because it's gone live on Amazon today, so I'm very proud.
Speaker 2:As you should be. Congratulations again, my friend, and thank you very much for your time today. Thank you for having me it's been a pleasure and listeners as always. Until next time, happy working.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show.