HRchat Podcast
Listen to the HRchat podcast by HR Gazette to get insights and tips from HR leaders, influencers and tech experts. Topics include HR Tech, AI, Leadership, Talent, Recruitment, Employee Engagement, Recognition, Wellness, DEI, and Company Culture.
Hosted by Bill Banham and other HR enthusiasts, the HRchat show publishes interviews with influencers, leaders, analysts, and those in the HR trenches 2-4 times each week. Shows are typically 15 to 30 minutes.
Past guests are from organizations including ADP, SAP, Ceridian, IBM, UPS, Deloitte Consulting LLP, Simon Sinek Inc, NASA, SHRM, Government of Canada, Hacking HR, Ultimate Software, McLean & Company, Microsoft, Shopify, DisruptHR, Talent Board, Virgin Pulse, Salesforce, Make-A-Wish Foundation, and Coca-Cola Beverages Company.
Podcast Music Credit"Funky One"Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
Want to be featured on the show? Learn more here and contact publisher@hr-gazette.com
HRchat Podcast
Creating an Inclusive Workplace with Jessica D. Winder
Unlock the secrets to creating a workplace where everyone thrives as HR expert and career coach, Jessica D. Winder joins Bill Banham on the HRchat show.
Discover the role of leadership in shaping an inclusive company culture, and how the right training can equip middle managers to foster teams that not only feel safe but genuinely belong.
Jessica doesn't just share wisdom from her professional playbook; she offers a glimpse into her HR journey, revealing personal growth gems like the power of patience and the clarity that comes with meditation.
Questions for Jessica include:
- How can people leaders ensure their company culture is inclusive and welcoming to all team members, while also making sure policies and procedures are in place for employee health and safety?
- Retaining high performers: Top tips for retention of top talent?
- What are some key differences between traditional v. "progressive HR"?
- Encouraging work-life balance: How can leaders help employees find a balance between their work and personal lives?
- You're an advocate for psychological safety and a speak-up culture. How can leaders achieve safe spaces?
We do our best to ensure editorial objectivity. The views and ideas shared by our guests and sponsors are entirely independent of The HR Gazette, HRchat Podcast and Iceni Media Inc.
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The HRchat show has had 100,000s of downloads and is frequently listed as one of the most popular global podcasts for HR pros, Talent execs and leaders. It is ranked in the top ten in the world based on traffic, social media followers, domain authority & freshness. The podcast is also ranked as the Best Canadian HR Podcast by FeedSpot and one of the top 10% most popular shows by Listen Score.
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Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's most downloaded and shared podcasts designed for HR pros, talent execs, tech enthusiasts and business leaders. For hundreds more episodes and what's new in the world of work, subscribe to the show, follow us on social media and visit HRGazettecom.
Speaker 2:Hey, this is Bill Bannum, your host today. Welcome to the HR Chat Show. My guest today is Jessica D Winder, Fractional Chief People Officer, Hidden Gem Career Coaching and former Senior Vice President of People at Refine Labs. Jessica is an accomplished HR executive with over a decade of experience in talent acquisition, benefits administration, compliance, organizational design and performance management, both domestically and internationally. Her expertise spans a range of functions enabling her to collaborate closely with senior executives and employees to drive strategic growth initiatives and enhance performance improvement strategies. Jessica, it's my pleasure to welcome you to the HR Chat Show today.
Speaker 3:Hi, I'm so excited to be here. I cannot believe you asked me to do this.
Speaker 2:Of course, because you're super cool. Beyond my reintroduction a moment ago, why don't you take a minute or so and tell our listeners a bit more about yourself?
Speaker 3:Hello, I am Jessica Winder. I'm located in Las Vegas, but I am a Texan. I've been in HR for the past 13, 14 years, doing everything from being in a startup and being the first HR person in the role, all the way to now being a head of talent for a startup that's actually based in Canada. I absolutely love HR. I don't see myself ever doing anything else. Then, on the side, my passion is career coaching, which I started in 2020. I specialize in helping people get to wherever they want to be in their career. I've been tagged the quick queen because I tell people to quit their jobs a lot, but I only tell them to quit if it's toxic. That's just a funny take.
Speaker 2:Love it. Now I feel silly because there was me saying before we hit record today have you ever been to Canada? It's a beautiful place. I know I don't sound like it, but I'm also Canadian. Jessica politely said yes, Bill, yes, I know Toronto. There we go, Silly me. Okay, let's get into the hard hitting questions now, Starting with in your opinion, Jessica, how can people leaders ensure that their company culture is inclusive and welcoming to all team members and while also perhaps making sure that policies and procedures are in place for employee health and safety?
Speaker 3:Yeah, this is a really, really important one and it starts at the top. So a lot of times I have either coached or been a part of organizations where it's really important that people are inclusive and they want to make sure that employees belong. However, action hasn't been put forward. So when you look at the leadership team, is the leadership team inclusive? A lot of times, the leadership team has their own subculture and I have been in places where the leadership team presents one way, but behind closed doors they're a different way. So actually, is your leadership team inclusive? Because it has to start there.
Speaker 3:If your leaders don't feel that they have safety or they are invited to speak up or bring their whole authentic selves to work, then they will not create that environment for their teams. A lot of times, also, middle management gets left out. So there's a lot of training for the leadership team and like executives and then just a lot of training for employees, but the middle managers that is the bread and butter, as they would say that they need to be trained effectively, specifically on psychological safety and what it means to belong. I am big on definitions. I think it's important that we are all saying the same things, so even defining for that organization. What does diversity mean, what does inclusion mean, what does psychological safety mean? And how do you expect employees to show up and showcase that value? A lot of times, having these core values without examples is just counterintuitive.
Speaker 4:Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the HR Chat Show. Iea training provides professional development to a changing workforce with changing needs, and we're proud to support this episode of the HR Chat podcast. Iea offers lots of courses, webinars and on-demand training to meet our students where they are and help them reach their goals. We're proud of our contribution to better risk analysis and high operating standards in the industry. Learn more at IEAtrainingorg. And now back to the conversation.
Speaker 2:Retaining high performance. Jessica, let's talk a little bit about that, because I know that you've got lots of advice around this area. This is something you've been terribly successful in. What are some of your top tips for the retention of top talent?
Speaker 3:Well, number one is pay them, and when I say that, people are like oh, jessica, no, it's true, you have to pay for top performance, and I am open on how that's being done. So it doesn't always have to be their base pay. It can be equity, it can be flexibility Flexibility right now, especially with things that are going on in the world and a lot of companies going back into an office. Flexibility is a form of currency nowadays, and so I think that is very important to think about. How are you asking them? That is a second part of it. Ask them what they want. A lot of times, employers come up with all of these programs, but they never ask people directly. Ask them what they want. I believe also in doing stay interviews, so ask people why they've stayed. Why are they still here? Most of your employees have absolutely had someone reach out to them about leaving the organization, so ask them why they stayed. Is it they love their leader? Is it the product? Is it the team that they're on? They feel like they're going to be able to have upward mobility. What is it about the organization that is making them stay? And then design systems around? That Sense of community is also another one that reason people stay.
Speaker 3:There's a lot of statistics around people staying because they have a best friend at work. How are you making sure that people feel like they are connected to their peers, specifically if you are remote? My last three organizations we have been remote. First, we didn't even have an office, and so making sure that people felt like they belonged and that they had a sense of community was imperative to us. Keeping our top performers and also you just have to identify who these people are. Some organizations are really scared to even name that. Some people are top performers because they don't want other people to feel left out and there is a. There's something to be said about that in the way that it's done, whether it's like a ranking system and all of that but identify who these people are, ask them what do they need to stay and then design systems around that, whether it's learning and development or making sure that they have some type of mentor or a sponsor in the organization so that they are getting direct feedback.
Speaker 2:I wonder, Jessica, are the reasons why people stay? Do they, do they change based on generations? Is what's more important to Gen Z and millennials? Is that different to X's and such?
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:I definitely feel like the younger generation would rather have flexibility, whereas older generations want stability or they want compensation, which not saying that the younger generation doesn't want compensation, because they do, but the currency is just different in what they're expecting I would also say just expectations.
Speaker 3:They expect their employer to speak up about certain things, whereas older generations were like, no, this is work, you don't have to talk about anything else outside of work. They feel very differently about that, and it is going to show up because all of these generations are working together, and so this is the first time we've had all of these generations in one workplace and it causes some friction, but there's also room for learning there. I definitely believe in reverse mentorships, where younger generations are mentoring older generations, and even that mentorship can go both ways. So the younger generation is giving feedback and giving insight into why they think certain ways, while also they're being mentored on how to move up in, maybe almost like an apprenticeship model, and I'm going to be hearing more and more about that these whippersnappers, these Gen Z's Okay, and I'm a millennial, just I got in there by a couple of years.
Speaker 2:millennials, perhaps you might disagree, but perhaps more focused on work-life balance than previous generations as well. In some way. Certainly, let's talk a bit about encouraging work-life balance, if you don't mind. And how can leaders help employees of all generations find a balance between their work and their personal lives?
Speaker 3:One of the ways is encouraging people to take their time off, and this has to be showcased from the top.
Speaker 3:So if leaders are not taking time off, or if they're glorifying that I haven't taken a day off in a whole year and this is how they're showing the hustle culture or their dedication, this will show up for employees as well.
Speaker 3:A lot of employers now have unlimited PTO and it only works if you have a minimum, if you say you must take at least two weeks or three weeks and you hold people accountable. At my last employer, we would get a report every couple of months and look and see who has not taken time, and we would reach out to their leader and say you need to encourage them to take some time off. And if you're not doing that, then you're setting up a system where people don't feel like they can actually take the time. And that goes with work-life balance, because if people aren't taking time off, how are they really recharging? And we all need to recharge, whether that's like taking time off to do nothing I have taken days off work to just sit at home and watch Netflix, and that is how I recharged or going on vacations, whatever it is people need time off, and if you're not encouraging that, then it's going to be wopsided.
Speaker 2:You are an advocate for psychological safety, as should everyone be, and speak of culture as well. So you've been there, you've done it. You mentioned earlier on as part of your intro you were an HR person in a startup. You were the only HR person in a startup, all the way through to leading big organizations. So how can leaders achieve safe spaces?
Speaker 3:Safety comes from trust, and if your team does not trust you or they do not feel like they can speak and there will be no retaliation, then you're never going to have psychological safety.
Speaker 3:So that's the first step is you have to make sure that your team trusts you, and anytime I've ever joined an organization, my first few months is just I do listening tours and I think of it.
Speaker 3:Just I want people to understand my purpose here, and a lot of people have, you know, negative thoughts about HR or they've had a negative experience before, and it's breaking down those barriers to make sure that employees feel like they can trust you.
Speaker 3:Now I am always a big proponent of like being transparent but also telling people there are some things you cannot be transparent about. So there are going to be things that I know that I can't tell you, but I need you to trust that I'm I have your best interest at heart and that I'm doing what's best for the business long term. And that takes time and I've seen before where trust has already been eroded, rather that be through previous layoffs. So there's been employee relations issues. It is harder to build it back up, but it is not impossible Anytime I've started somewhere or when I'm interviewing for a new role, I always ask anyone that I'm interviewing with, tell me about your experience with HR, because I want to know what I'm walking into. And so, from an HR perspective, it is imperative that you understand the state of the business and their perception of HR before you can build out psychological safety.
Speaker 2:Okay, this is why I do this show, because I listen and learn. Thank you very much, jessica. Hey, we're almost out of time already. What Bill Don't?
Speaker 3:leave me. I know how did that happen.
Speaker 2:Before we wrap up, just a couple more questions for you. What's been one of the most impactful lessons that you've learned in your career, and was that lesson imparted to you by a mentor or someone else you respect? Give us a little insight into your personal development.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my personal development has very much centered around patients. I'm becoming a patient person. In general, even in my personal life, I'm not that patient, but one of the things I hone in on is I've really, really started to utilize meditation. One of my teachers talks about the space in between. So between stimulus and response there's a space, and that is where your power lies.
Speaker 3:In my career, I am a very extroverted person and I tend to speak up a lot, and that has sometimes gotten me in trouble, and the lack of patience has resulted in me moving fast sometimes and breaking things, which in the tech world is appreciated, but sometimes in HR that's not the case, and so learning patience has been a hard lesson for me. It's something that in some way, shape or form, has come up in every performance review. Every mentor I've ever had has talked about me needing to be more patient, and I finally have taken it in. I used to be resistant to it. I used to say no, no, no, I don't need that, and I'm now at a state where I am embracing it and learning that there is power between that space and to live in that space and don't feel the need to be so responsive at the expense of quality.
Speaker 2:I love the answer. Such a wonderfully honest and authentic answer. Yeah, for a while I wasn't patient. I've been working on. I love that. I love that. That's great. Okay, so last question for you for today how can our listeners connect with you, learn more about what you're getting up to and maybe meet you? Are you going to be at any events for HR pros and leaders in 2024?
Speaker 3:I am and I would love to connect. I am very, very active on LinkedIn. I'm a content creator, I post every day, so engaging on LinkedIn, it's Jessica D Winder, and then, yes, I will be at the transform conference in Las Vegas in March and I would love to meet anyone that wants to meet up. Let me know and we can definitely set up time for a coffee.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Well. That just leaves me to say for today, although it won't be the last time, because I'm going to be bugging you to come on other shows I'm involved with, but for today, jessica, thank you very much for being my guest.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. This was so fun.
Speaker 2:And listeners as always. Until next time, happy working.
