HRchat Podcast
Listen to the HRchat podcast by HR Gazette to get insights and tips from HR leaders, influencers and tech experts. Topics include HR Tech, AI, Leadership, Talent, Recruitment, Employee Engagement, Recognition, Wellness, DEI, and Company Culture.
Hosted by Bill Banham and other HR enthusiasts, the HRchat show publishes interviews with influencers, leaders, analysts, and those in the HR trenches 2-4 times each week. Shows are typically 15 to 30 minutes.
Past guests are from organizations including ADP, SAP, Ceridian, IBM, UPS, Deloitte Consulting LLP, Simon Sinek Inc, NASA, SHRM, Government of Canada, Hacking HR, Ultimate Software, McLean & Company, Microsoft, Shopify, DisruptHR, Talent Board, Virgin Pulse, Salesforce, Make-A-Wish Foundation, and Coca-Cola Beverages Company.
Podcast Music Credit"Funky One"Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
Want to be featured on the show? Learn more here and contact publisher@hr-gazette.com
HRchat Podcast
SHRM, Leadership and Legacy with Steve Browne
Have you ever wondered what it takes to lead with true intentionality in HR? Tune in to episode 717 as Steve Brown, Chief People Officer at LaRosa's Inc. returns to the HRchat podcast to share his insights and experiences.
Steve challenges the common misconception that HR is a fallback career, advocating instead for its critical role within every organization. He takes us on a heartfelt journey inspired by his late father, emphasizing the importance of empathy, meaningful connections, and leaving a personal legacy.
This episode is not just a deep dive into the emotional challenges faced by HR professionals but also a celebration of the human element in our field.
But that's not all - we also explore the resources and professional development opportunities offered by SHRM. From effectively utilizing machine learning and AI to addressing AI bias, we discuss how SHRM can help HR pros stay ahead in the rapidly evolving tech landscape.
We also shine a light on the dynamic energy of DisruptHR events, where community support and innovation take center stage.
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Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's most downloaded and shared podcasts designed for HR pros, talent execs, tech enthusiasts and business leaders. For hundreds more episodes and what's new in the world of work, subscribe to the show, follow us on social media and visit hrgazettecom and visit.
Speaker 2:HRGazettecom. Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show. My guest today, my returning guest today, is one of the most famous people in the world of HR. I would have to say he's also the best-dressed man in HR and one of the nicest people that I've ever met in the world of human resources. Who is it? Of course, it can only be listeners. Mr Steve Brown, chief People Officer over at LaRosses Inc. Steve, welcome back to the show today. Thank you very much for coming back.
Speaker 3:Hi Bill, it's always great to talk to you, my friend.
Speaker 2:So you have been on the show a couple of times, including I think it was episode 500 or something, because you're that special. But for those folks who haven't met you yet maybe they haven't heard of you. I can't believe it, but maybe they haven't why don't you start by taking a minute or two and introducing yourself?
Speaker 3:Well, technically, my day job is, as you mentioned, the Chief People Officer at La Rosa's. We're a pizzeria, so I get to do all the wonderful things with people, every aspect of people. And as for who I am, I'm an intentional HR person, a little different thinking, not your traditional HR person, not only from my dress or choice of dress or shirts, I should say. But you know, I think that the world of HR has always been fascinating, continues to be fascinating. I find some people have kind of lost heart and that concerns me, but I think we can turn that around because we're in a good place.
Speaker 2:We are recording this conversation just a just a little while after memorial day, and you posted on linkedin a very touching post about your dad, who served and who you lost, sadly, when, when you were very little, and as part of that post you wrote the following always remember that your life will be a legacy. My hope is that you make a lifetime impact on those around you so they know how you poured into their lives. Don't float through your days. Be intentional, build that legacy and thank the family of veterans who made the ultimate sacrifice for all of us this Memorial Day and every day. So my question on the back of that is, steve, what would you hope your legacy to the world of HR would be?
Speaker 3:That is a giant question, because I don't know that I want to be like you know, memorialized or anything like that. It's funny. Too many people talk about getting into HR reluctantly. Or I happen to fall into it. I hear that all the time.
Speaker 3:I didn't, I chose, and I think that it should be the type of profession where people say this matters and I get to touch people's lives every day Good, challenging, difficult, wonderful, all at the same time. But there's no other profession, not one that gets to work with people this intentionally, this intimately. And so my legacy is I want people to understand that what we do, or what I've done, or what this field is matters. It should matter organizationally. It should matter organizationally. It should lead organizationally. It shouldn't be in the backseat or on the sidelines. And I get so frustrated when I hear about companies that do that like relegate HR and we tolerate it. I just don't understand it. I think we should be in the forefront, because wherever there are people is where we should be. If people would value others and be others focused, I think that if people say that about me, that I was others focused, I'm good.
Speaker 2:I love that. So this is an audio podcast, of course, listeners. However, I'm just going to get Steve to do a frustrated face, because I can't imagine you doing a frustrated face. You're always so happy. What's your frustrated face, steve?
Speaker 3:I can't just do it. When I hear people in a space where they just tear things down or they feel they're torn down themselves, I just want to come up and hold them and say it's good, you know, I know what you do is hard, because I do it with you. It's not this, you know placating. Hey, you know, hang in there person. It's no, I know what we do is hard. But what's really funny and I'm going to talk about this even more when I go to Sherman, I know we're going to talk about that later is too often we talk about what we do in third person. We forget that we're people ourselves and so if we could just understand the more human we are as HR professionals, the better practitioners we'd be. And you know, to have a laugh with somebody or cry with somebody or know, let it out and scream, that's okay. Too often we hold it in and it it sells us short and we shouldn't do that I like that.
Speaker 2:You know, I've got a lot of love for this chat listeners and, as steve mentioned, we will be talking about sure sherm shortly because, um, steve and I will both be there. We'll be partying away. I'm going to walk straight up to the big man and give him a giant hug, if that's okay, steve, if you don't mind. Oh, of course, thank you. Thank you, but before we get there, um, you are, of course, a very respected voice in the industry, um, so my next question for you is what are you seeing? What are the frustrations for hr leaders in in 2024, for example, on on this show, a lot of the conversations that I'm having with HR leaders, they share things such as this is the year where a lot of people are staying in their jobs, so it's a frustration for them when budget's not coming through to ensure that the professional development is happening for their best people so that they stay in 2025 and beyond.
Speaker 2:Maybe that's something you've heard too. Something else that I've heard a lot of is I'm sorry listeners, we can't do a show without talking about it, hey, hi, and how that's impacting uh, hr, and I'm hearing a lot from leaders that sure, uh, it's, it's being implemented in lots of different ways throughout the employee life cycle, with the exception there seems to be a hesitation of of the sourcing and recruitment stages. Uh, because, generally speaking, a lot of the leaders I chat with are still very skeptical that there are inherent biases within machine learning and AI. I'm going to shut up now. What are you seeing, steve? What are the big obstacles?
Speaker 3:The big obstacles is the transition of what companies are becoming or not becoming. Transition of what companies are becoming or not becoming. They have to choose. What I'm seeing is companies that are choosing to be more relationship-based. Are the people that are going to work on, the people that want to stay? There are different ways to do it. Instead of professional development only From a budget perspective, I think it's I choose to develop you, Bill, because you matter to me in my company.
Speaker 3:You add value. This is how the days of just expecting someone to show up are far, far in the past, but we keep holding on to that model Like we're so more focused on, you know, return to work and attendance and visibility. But visibility doesn't transfer to productivity. It just means I'm seen. So I think it's if employees don't feel that they're getting the attention they deserve, they'll leave. It's just after the pandemic. They are no longer going to tolerate the I need to work because you told me mantra. And companies that refuse to be relationship based are going to fail. They are, if they're not failing already.
Speaker 3:There are some large brands who are really, really struggling and when you look at the core or you hear the people from those areas, they'll say, yeah, they didn't pay attention to me. Yes, they didn't acknowledge me. I was not valued for what I brought to the table. I was always told what I did was wrong. We've got to wake up because the wave is upon us. Honestly, this concerns me far more than AI.
Speaker 3:Ai is another tool. I mean we freak out like, oh my gosh, and there's two things. One, like every new tech trend, there's everything has to be mentioned. I love how you framed it. Oh, sorry, we have to talk about it again. It reminds me when we did the switch oh, I'm old, way too old but when we had the whole dot-com scare in 2000,.
Speaker 3:It's like, oh my gosh, the world's going to end because we had so much uncertainty. We don't do well with uncertainty, and it's the next wave of uncertainty. So the fear of bias, I think, is legitimate. I really do. It's still a machine. What we keep forgetting, it's machine learning. Now, it's fascinating, but from a process standpoint, I think there's a lot of advantages. What we should do as HR professionals is learn how to use it effectively instead of react out of fear of the unknown. I don't know how many times we have to say this, but the next uncertain thing is going to come sometime. So instead of keeping reacting in fear and confining and I heard one company talk about you know we're going to have a policy on AI. It was funny is they'll probably use AI to write the policy.
Speaker 2:That's true, that's true.
Speaker 3:Funny. We should look at the capability what's in one is in front of us, so that we can reskill our people to add value in different ways, instead of being fearful of the technologies that's in front of us.
Speaker 2:Spoken like a true pro with so much experience that, yes, you were there for the dot com times, very good. Okay, let's now switch focus, mr Brown, and let's talk about SHRM. Shrm's coming up, shrm 24. It is in just a few weeks. As we record this interview, it's happening in beautiful Chicago and I would imagine the vast majority of our listeners will be familiar with SHRM. However, although 65% of our listeners are in North America, 35% ain't, so maybe they're less familiar. Can you take a minute, steve, and just introduce SHRM to those people who perhaps out there haven't heard of the association?
Speaker 3:I think SHRM is a wonderful, wonderful place where you can get to know people that do what you do, and I think that we miss that part of it, the professional development side. They're untouched. They're way ahead of the curve. They have all kinds of arms, whether it comes to advocacy on the government side or impact in the business world. Johnny's talk about civility and bringing up bigger topics that companies should be looking at from an HR perspective. I think SHRM offers such a broad variety for the new person coming into the workforce to the senior person.
Speaker 3:One of the things I'm very excited about is I joined the SHRM Executive Network four years ago, right when it started, and there is a track for the people in the Executive Network and I've been in SHRM gosh as long as the dot-com thing and I think they finally got it right. It's really a wonderful, wonderful new aspect, newer aspect of SHRM. So now I think the organization can be walk alongside you throughout your entire career, regardless of the level. Very few organizations can do that and I think you can find your niche. I look at it more how do I utilize the resources and connect with the people I find? Versus what the organization is as an organization. It is a business. It's a great business. But we need to to bring the hr part of it, the people side of it, is what why I go get to meet people like you I get to meet people like you.
Speaker 2:I still remember the first time I met you. It was in, it was at shem, it was dc, it was I want to say 2015, steve, 2016, something like that. Yeah, um, it was the same week as the battle of the bastards on game of thrones. I remember that because, uh, I had I had very, very bad signal and I'm trying to watch it on my phone one evening during show, so that it just stuck in my mind. Um, and and steve steve's a big guy, listeners he's got this big charisma, this big aura about him, and he just came over and said hello and I think he gave me a hug straight away, actually, so that stuck with me. Steve, you probably don't remember that because you chat so many people, but that always stuck with me. So, um, now that you've held various roles with sherm over the years, um, including being on different boards and whatnot the, the uh, it's pretty important, right? It's the biggest in the world.
Speaker 2:The Expo this year will have something like over 660 different vendors on the floor. Why is it uniquely good? For want of a better way of putting it, there are other associations out there. There are other organizations that do similar things to SHRM. Why is SHR the, the gold standard?
Speaker 3:I think there's a lot of reasons. It's the gold standard one. It has a vehicle of local chapters, state councils and volunteer leaders. There's different ways to join and really immerse yourself as an hr professional. The, the certification, I think, is the top-notch certification out there because it's applicable. It's a competency-based certification but you can apply it and it forces professional development in the field where people don't develop themselves. We develop everybody else but we don't develop ourselves.
Speaker 3:So the ongoing education is great and, honestly, much of the content is wonderful. So it ranges from very technical, you know stuff for day-to-day hands-on things to sessions that really stretch you and make you think differently. So I think, like I mentioned before, you can find you where you want to plug in, and I don't know that every association does that, nor should they. I think there's a lot of variety. We're going to talk about the Disrupt HR group. There's CIPD, there's local chambers and stuff. It's not a SHRM versus another. Shrm offers quite a wide breadth of things to check things out and then, if you want to find specialty things or things that are really different, there's those opportunities around the world as well.
Speaker 2:You are presenting a couple of sessions at SHRM 24,. Mr Brown, Can you take a couple of minutes and tell listeners all about them? Take a couple of minutes and tell listeners all about them. And for those people who are lucky enough to be in attendance, either in person or online, why should they come along and and take a listen.
Speaker 3:Well, I think first of all it's an honor. It's so funny. I don't do this for a living. I don't speak for a living, but those that do do great work. I come and get to speak as a fellow practitioner, so to be able to stand on the stage and speak to my peers there's very little that's more invigorating than that. So the two sessions I'm giving are one.
Speaker 3:Being a human in HR For years I chose to wear the company face or the work face or the. You know I represent the company against type things and I was a horrible, horrible HR person. Now, when I come in and I can be myself and wear my fun shirts and have my lava lamps and hang out with people and laugh like crazy, it makes HR much more personalized and in a workforce that is requiring people to be personalized, if you are not doing that yourself, you're going to hate what you do and there's no reason for that. So that's one session, and the other one is new. It's how to be a change catalyst.
Speaker 3:It's not how do I manage change. It's how do I drive change, because too often I think we have change overwhelm us like a giant flood that just washes over us and we're like crud. What do we do now, instead of saying I try my best to be ahead of it and drive the change in my company and we tend to forego this and give it off to other people, like we defer, like, oh, other people drive change, like sales or marketing or operations. We work with people, man, we can drive change all day. So I'm excited about that session as well.
Speaker 2:Is there an optimum number of lava lamps? One needs to be an amazing HR leader, well you should have at least one.
Speaker 3:I have seven in my office right now and it's 120. A friend of mine. I just did a session for her and some senior HR people here in Cincinnati and they were kind and said hey, we got, we got this for you, and so the new one right here. You can't see it, I know we're not we're on radio versus visual but it's got. It's a lava, lava lamp. So the whole outside looks like a volcano. So it looks like a volcano erupting. Where she says I thought you'd want to add this to your thing. And when somebody gives you something that touching my wife goes crazy that I keep getting these things. But if it makes that personal connection, it's well worth it. That's why you should have things like that.
Speaker 2:This is others that you can hear from at SHRM. On the main stage include, of course, johnny C Taylor, who is the president and ceo of of show, uh. Sherry shepherd, who is an emmy award-winning talk show host, comedian, actress and author. Jessica jensen, the cmo over at indeed, uh, lots of other cool folks will be on the main stage, plus jay leno and kenny clarkson will be providing entertainment. Why more? What other reasons would you need to come along than those there? Um? And, of course, the creme de la creme is that steve will be doing a couple of sessions.
Speaker 3:Um, any other sessions, though, that you're looking forward to, steve I'm gonna lose my mind when jason sudeikis takes the stage, because I have the Ted Lasso Believe poster right above my door, just like he did on the show, and, honestly, if people have never watched Ted Lasso, it is the best HR show ever, ever, ever, ever. It shows the humanity of work. It's so good, so to hear him speak is going to be great. Jennifer McClure is always a plus. I know we're going to talk about Jen here in a second, but she's sought after for a reason she talks strategically from a business perspective. John Baldino is going to talk about forgiveness at work and to bring up a topic that's so, so emotional and it's solid. Louis Lessig does a great thing on legal. I mean. Greg Hawks there's I mean I can't catch enough people.
Speaker 3:The other thing I'm excited about, though, is this year I'm the ambassador for the Better Workplaces Challenge Cup, which is like SHRM's HR tech startup group. It's like Shark Tank, and I just found out that I'm not just the ambassador, but I'm a judge for the finals, and the three companies that are coming are all global, and so it just shows such a big reach for SHRM. It's really, really grown. When I started in SHRM, it was very US-centric. It's really, really grown. When I started in the tournament it was very US centric and now that it's making real progress on the global stage, it's exciting to see.
Speaker 2:You see, as we get all the big shots on this show, it's interesting as a as a Brit. I'm also a Canadian. I'm always keen to stress that on the show. But as a Brit who does quite a bit of traveling in the US In fact, I just got back yesterday from louisiana and texas, uh, new orleans. I was at conference and I drove over to austin, met with tara huyani um, not the hr lady, check her out, she's amazing. Um, and I've noticed in the us the last couple of years, when people figure out that you're a brit and not an australian, they go huh, I like ted lasso. Yeah, that's a pretty cool show. That's their favorite reference. That's how they relate to a print. There we go, there we go.
Speaker 2:Okay, you did mention just a moment ago Jennifer McClure, who is one of the co-founders of the Disrupt HR movement. There are over 150 chapters around the world. I have the honor and pleasure to be a co-organizer of quite a few of them six, seven, eight, something like that in the UK, in the US and in the Caribbean. Steve, you've been involved with Disrupt pretty much since the start. Your main focus, I think, is with Cincinnati, there's going to be a big party for all the Disruptors. While SHRM is going on, tell our listeners why you love Disrupt HR, why is it a particularly special event.
Speaker 3:I love Disrupt HR because it's the fringe, it's the leading edge of where HR is. You go to great sessions, like you just went to the ATD conference. Shrm is a great conference. I was at World at Work. You know there's been some really good sessions out in Vegas Unleashes out there and HR Tech will be there. But most of the sessions Work Human. They're traditional, they're just traditional. But Disrupt HR is five minutes of chaos on a stage where people bring up ideas that just make you really stretch and think. The sessions I've watched online, I've been to and the ones we have in Cincinnati. They really jump.
Speaker 3:And what's funny is I'll see more people come to disrupt events that I don't see at traditional events. So it reaches another facet of the HR profession and these people are really wanting to see how to grow and for all of us to get together. It'll be crazy, jennifer, you, lori, eric, kershat, and it goes on and on and on. I mean there's such energy around this. It'll be like the old days of the tweet-ups. Energy around this. It'll be like the old days of the tweet-ups, but it'll be good just to see each other and encourage each other, because people don't want to remain stagnant and, honestly, even Sherm's learning this. If you just keep churning out the same stuff, it's okay. There's a place for it. You're going to reach people you didn't before, but there's got to be something that's being the leading edge, and that's what Disrupt HR does.
Speaker 2:Well, when I got the email invite from Jen last week, I nearly fell out of my chair. I'm like, yes, okay, this is going to be wicked awesome. Hey, one thing that I would add to what you just said there, which I love about the Disrupt format, is forget the actual presentation style itself, the five minutes and all the rest of it, but the number of speakers having around about 14,. One thing that me and the co-organizers of the chapters that I'm involved with love about it is that number of speakers, steve, gives you an opportunity to. Yeah, you'll have the big hitters, people like yourself will be up on stage, people who are well-respected, well-known, but at the same time, there's an opportunity there for new voices. People have never perhaps even spoken before in front of an audience and they've got new ideas. They've got fresh things to share, and I love that because that format does allow for that.
Speaker 3:It's funny, the big hitters, so to speak, are the ones who struggle. The ones who are new are like ah, they're so passionate and they're ready to go. And I love hearing the new voices. I really do, because you know people need an audience and they need a way to get themselves expressed. It gets lost in the hole or the void of electronic media and stuff because things just disappear within moments. But that in-person five minutes, new voices, it's the best. I would encourage every one of your listeners, if they are not connected to Disrupt HR, to do it, because it will change how you view what you do.
Speaker 2:I agree. For the longest time as a co-organizer I was telling others how to do it and then I had to finally suck it up and do one myself. So I did my first Disrupt Talk in Cambridge, uk, last October. I placed myself number three or four so I'd hardly be noticed and I just spoke really quickly for five minutes. But it's a unique challenge and, my goodness, you've got to rehearse and rehearse and rehearse. But, um, the other thing that the way that we always frame it, the chapters that we're involved with, it's part of the intros. We always say this is a very unique community. It's about love. Uh, you, you'll see a whole bunch of people come up. Nobody will get it right. The only person I've ever seen get it perfect is a guy called perry timston. If you know, perry, uh based I know, perry, yeah he knows everybody.
Speaker 2:He's like the kevin bacon of uk hr. Um, uh, he's the only person I've seen it. Absolutely perfect. But that's that's the point, isn't it? It's it's a challenge, it's it's about just getting up there, putting yourself out there. Who cares if you don't hit your slides on time? You know, it's not about that, it's it's about it's about the energy and it's about for the audience. Their job is to give the love, give, give the support and recognize that unique challenge. Anyway, we are almost out of time today for this conversation. Before we do wrap up, mr.
Speaker 3:Brown, how can folks connect with and learn more about you? Two places now. Well, I'm everywhere in social media. I still use Twitter. I will not call it the other name, because it's about people. What I think people have lost sight of in all of the social media platforms, regardless of what they are, is we keep focusing on the forum instead of the humans, and I know that's my common theme and it will be till I die. Maybe that's my legacy is I focus on people? Uh, linkedin very active on linkedin, facebook, instagram threads, you name it um s brown hr. Everywhere brown with an e. You can find me. I'm not hard or I will find you brown with an e.
Speaker 2:You can find me okay, very good. Well, that just leaves me to say for today, steve brown with an e. Uh, this is the third or fourth time we've had you on the show. It's always an honor. It's? It's um, uh, you're a busy guy. Uh, you, you could. You could go on any show in the world, sir. Uh, you could probably go on the jay leto, but, um, you, for whatever reason, you chose to spend a little bit of time with me again today. So thank you very much always a pleasure, bro.
Speaker 3:Can't wait to see you in Sherman a few weeks.
Speaker 2:Me too, and listeners. For now, as always, happy working.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show. If you enjoyed this episode, why not subscribe and listen to some of the hundreds of episodes published by HR Gazette and remember for what's new in the world of work? Subscribe to the show, follow us on social media and visit hrgazettecom. You Thank you.
