HRchat Podcast
Listen to the HRchat podcast by HR Gazette to get insights and tips from HR leaders, influencers and tech experts. Topics include HR Tech, AI, Leadership, Talent, Recruitment, Employee Engagement, Recognition, Wellness, DEI, and Company Culture.
Hosted by Bill Banham and other HR enthusiasts, the HRchat show publishes interviews with influencers, leaders, analysts, and those in the HR trenches 2-4 times each week. Shows are typically 15 to 30 minutes.
Past guests are from organizations including ADP, SAP, Ceridian, IBM, UPS, Deloitte Consulting LLP, Simon Sinek Inc, NASA, SHRM, Government of Canada, Hacking HR, Ultimate Software, McLean & Company, Microsoft, Shopify, DisruptHR, Talent Board, Virgin Pulse, Salesforce, Make-A-Wish Foundation, and Coca-Cola Beverages Company.
Podcast Music Credit"Funky One"Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
Want to be featured on the show? Learn more here and contact publisher@hr-gazette.com
HRchat Podcast
Creating a Mentally Healthy Workplace: Insights and Strategies with Andrea Herron
Unlock the secrets to creating a mentally healthy workplace with insights from Andrea Herron, CHRO at WebMD. Listen as Andrea opens up to guest host Bob Goodwin about her book, "There's an Elephant in Your Office," co-written with her sister, which addresses the stigma around mental health and provides practical strategies to support employees.
Learn from Andrea’s personal experiences and gain a deeper understanding of why it's crucial to recognize behavioral changes in employees, especially in today’s era of remote work.
Bob and Andrea also discuss why managers, not just HR pros, need to lead the charge in mental health conversations and how this can foster trust and loyalty within teams.
Andrea emphasizes the importance of equipping managers with the right tools and language to navigate these sensitive discussions. She shares wellness strategies, such as effective communication practices, resiliency techniques, and valuable resources like Mental Health America and the Veterans Crisis Line.
Tune in to enhance your workplace culture with actionable tips and learn how to promote a psychologically safe environment where employees feel comfortable discussing their mental wellness.
---
Message from our sponsor:
Looking for a solution to manage your global workforce?
With Deel, you can easily onboard global employees, streamline payroll, and ensure local compliance. All in one flexible, scalable platform! Join thousands of companies who trust Deel with their global HR needs. Visit deel.com to learn how to manage your global team with unmatched speed, flexibility, and compliance.
---
Feature Your Brand on the HRchat Podcast
The HRchat show has had 100,000s of downloads and is frequently listed as one of the most popular global podcasts for HR pros, Talent execs and leaders. It is ranked in the top ten in the world based on traffic, social media followers, domain authority & freshness. The podcast is also ranked as the Best Canadian HR Podcast by FeedSpot and one of the top 10% most popular shows by Listen Score.
Want to share the story of how your business is helping to shape the world of work? We offer sponsored episodes, audio adverts, email campaigns, and a host of other options. Check out packages here.
Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's most downloaded and shared podcasts designed for HR pros, talent execs, tech enthusiasts and business leaders. For hundreds more episodes and what's new in the world of work, subscribe to the show, follow us on social media and visit HRGazettecom and visit HRGazettecom.
Speaker 2:Hi everybody, this is Bob Goodwin. I'm the president of Career Club and your friendly guest host for Bill Bannum on today's HR Chat podcast. So thank you so much for joining. If you're expecting to see Bill, hopefully I'm doing a good enough job for filling in, but we're just really excited that you're here today. I'm joined today by Andrea Herron. Andrea is the CHRO at WebMD and Andrea welcome.
Speaker 3:Thank you for having me. I am so excited to be here and talk with you today.
Speaker 2:Now it's so nice to see you again. Andrea and I have spoken before, and she is an expert in mental wellness and mental health in the workplace. Andrea, before we jump into all of that, do you mind just giving people just a little bit of a picture of your career and kind of how you've landed at WebMD?
Speaker 3:Sure, sure. So I'm a Kentucky girl now living on the West Coast, but I started my HR career at Berry Plastics Manufacturing in Evansville, indiana. So shout out to the Midwest. It was a great job, learned a ton about how to do HR and then moved westward and worked for an energy nonprofit. Moved westward and worked for an energy nonprofit get that good karma and doing HR, business partnering work, which you know was a huge lesson actually in how people are people, but different flavors of people in different industries and parts of the country. So it was a bit of a learning curve for me and when I say y'all, it was all of a sudden interesting instead of the norm. And then I moved over to lead HR for the Oregon Humane Society and Veterinarian Hospital, which was just dreamy with all those puppies and kittens and great nonprofit work happening over there. And then wanted to get into health and wellness and continuing to help people kind of live their best lives and moved over to WebMD where I have been for the last seven years.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Well, I love actually there's a little bit of non-linearity to your career and stuff like that, and you know you've definitely progressed and that's cool. One of the things that people may not know is that and they should know is that you wrote a book called there's an elephant in your office, and do you mind maybe just giving a little bit of the backstory and then maybe there's a few things that we can unpack from that. But but what's the story behind there's an elephant in your office?
Speaker 3:Sure. So, yes, that book has been instrumental in a lot of my career and how I operate out there and what I talk about with people. And it did all start back in about 2017 when my sister, who I grew up with and shared a home with, called me and told me she was going to lose her job because she had anxiety and depression and she was changing her medicine and she wanted to do a good job and she was failing, and so on and so on, and I said what? What do you mean? You have anxiety and depression? What? This was the first time I ever knew that in my entire life and because of the stigma and shame around mental health conditions, she never said anything to us until it was a crisis and she needed me, as her sister in HR, to help her out and, through that experience of trying to help her find resources for herself, but also maybe for her HR department or manager, it was a real vacuum of information, except, you know, here's the ADA guidelines and a few legal cases which are really unhelpful in tactical terms. So we did end up getting her through that. I don't like to leave people hanging. She did get a job adjustment and some accommodations and she did make it through and is doing great today.
Speaker 3:But through that experience I realized if I didn't know what my own sister was going through, I most certainly had no idea what the employees in my organization were dealing with on a day-to-day and we definitely weren't taking care of them in the best way that we could. So we wrote this book together from the perspective of someone with a mental health disorder at work and the HR business view of how to better support people from a management lens or just a colleague and yourself, quite honestly and so we've been both kind of talking about it, coaching, training, delivering content and trying to get the word out to help people. And then cut to 2020, when we had published the book and mental health crises abounded, we realized that our content didn't include anything about remote work, because that really wasn't at the forefront of anybody's thought and it was a huge shift. So we actually updated the content, added some information about how to support remote workers and then republished a second edition in 2022.
Speaker 2:in 2022. Wow yeah, so your timing was amazing for sure. First of all, just huge appreciation for the transparency and kind of vulnerability that you know your sister for sure exhibited to kind of tell her story. And then kudos to you for coming along like a good sister and helping her, For people who are listening to this many will be HR professionals levels. What are your top two or three kind of takeaways or things that you would kind of just make sure that people are aware of that were big findings for you in the book?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I think we all know at this point that mental health matters, right, I mean, we've had to learn that. But I think what we don't always know is how that translates to the day-to-day. And so some of the biggest takeaways would be that you really have to establish some baseline understanding of how people show up so you can notice when something is off. And if you don't have any relationship or you're not open to listening, no one will ever tell you anything and they don't have any relationship, or you're not open to listening, no one will ever tell you anything and they don't have to write. People deserve privacy and they never have to share. But if you do have that relationship and they do let you know, then you're in a better position to make a tweak or an adjustment.
Speaker 3:Um, if someone usually is very put together and starts coming in disheveled, if they're always camera on and now they're always camera off, you know those these could be signs. If they usually say hello in the morning and now they don't talk to anybody, they just go straight to their station very antisocial, which would be unusual, right. So you're looking for things that are different for that specific individual and you have to know how they show up to notice that before you can say hey, I've noticed that usually you turn your work in on time and you're becoming a person who's late or who doesn't turn them in and that's unlike you. Is something going on right? So you have to notice. But then you've got to stick to observable workplace behaviors in the conversation, cause I think people get really nervous rightfully so about what to say and not say. And if you're going to keep it to observable workplace behaviors in a place of care, like I've noticed this, I've noticed that. Can I help? Is there something going on? That's the best place to start.
Speaker 2:What if that's super helpful? What if it's just a colleague? Like I'm not necessarily the HR person, like we just sit in cubicles next to each other or whatever and, like you said, you know you don't seem like yourself. You know, is it sort of the same thing? Like, hey, andrea, I'm just sort of noticing usually a bit, you know, cheerier and perkier, and you don't seem like yourself the past few days. Are you doing okay? Would that be appropriate?
Speaker 3:I think it'd be very appropriate and, honestly, probably easier, because it doesn't have the weight of the HR person asking you about you know how you're doing, or your manager even, because nobody wants to seem like they have a problem or they can't do their job or people are wondering about if they are going to show up today. I mean, none of us want to go to work and feel like people think we're doing a bad job, right. So it does get harder when you're talking to your manager, because we don't want our manager to think that we can't do our work. So I think in a lot of ways it's easier if it's a colleague to your point to be like hey, I sit next to you every day and we usually banter and you're not joking with me. It's unusual, everything Okay, and it's very casual and not a lot of consequence, you know, for someone being like actually I'm just having an off day or an off week or whatever, but we just don't want to get into the rumor gossip mill, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, that would be the for sure, not do. Hey, did you see Andrea? Andrea's been acting weird recently and talking about Andrea, not talking to Andrea. Part of, though, I think, what's implied in all this but just to say it very plainly is there's an element of caring in what you're saying, saying, there's an element of being observant in what you're saying and then, just, you know, being proactive enough to actually say something right, and that's not always easy for people to do.
Speaker 2:If I was the manager and you were on my team and let's just use your example of you know, gosh, andrew, you know you've. I always think of you as somebody who turns to work in on time and you've been late the past few times Is everything OK? If I was not comfortable for some reason because this might go into a topic that, like that's, I just don't like talking about stuff. I don't know what she's going to say Is it appropriate to go to my HR business partner and say, hey, andrea's been acting. There's some observable behaviors, work behaviors. Would you talk to her, or should I begin? Should the manager be the first person?
Speaker 3:It's a great question. I think managers often want to pass the buck on difficult or awkward conversations because they're awkward. But no, you know, they do need to be the first person to have that conversation before escalating. You know, when they come to HR, the the way to handle that would be hey, let's role play, let me give you some language, let me help you craft that conversation so you can ask in a way that feels doable. Maybe it's not totally comfortable, but it would be more natural because they're not going to tell me something because now it's escalated to HR and it's a way bigger deal than if you just say hey, I've noticed this, it's unlike you. Is there something holding you up? Is there something I can do more from that care and proactive place versus a shaming or blaming or you're in trouble. Conversation in the beginning.
Speaker 2:So if you were my HR business, if you were my HR business partner and I came to you and said, hey, you know, bill's acting a little strange these days, et cetera, et cetera, would you talk to him? You would probably I'm going, I'm hearing these days you would encourage an HR professional to say, bob, I think right now it would be best if you talked to Bill, like, for all these good reasons and not accept, you know, hey, why don't you?
Speaker 2:did the delegation but kind of play it back and like Bob, actually you need to go talk to Bill first.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, and it's also a growth and development conversation for that manager because they should be comfortable having those conversations and so it's a good opportunity to help them. And also I might give an example to that manager to say you know those stories that go viral because the employee called in because X, Y, Z happened and they were going to be late or miss a shift. And the manager said, don't worry, we got you, you take care of yourself. The loyalty, the trust, the comfort that comes with that type of care and response, productivity and retention through the roof. So I would say I wouldn't want to take that opportunity away from the manager to build trust with that employee, because it will actually do the opposite if they pass it along.
Speaker 2:Let's take a couple of steps back. We've sort of dived into like super specific. Let's just zoom out a little bit. What's your because you pay attention to these kinds of things what's your observation of the state of mental health in the workplace? You kind of said you know, when you wrote the book, 2020 happened. You've updated a little bit. What are you seeing today and how's that different than even four or five years ago?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's similar but different. So you know, the overall stat that we use is one in five US adults experiences a mental health disorder every single year. One in five is a lot. Health disorder every single year One in five is a lot. And most of those adults have jobs, right? So you're talking. Think of your four closest friends, family members, colleagues. One of you is impacted not by just the blues, but actual mental health disorder.
Speaker 3:The Mental Health America came out yesterday with their 2024 reports that between 2021 and 2022, looking back at that data 23% of adults experienced a mental illness every year. So it went up. More than 5% of US populations reported experiencing serious thoughts of suicide. You know these are real things and these people are coming to work and so we can ignore it and pretend like everything's fine. But if you want your employees to stay and feel and be cared for, there is a benefit to that individual and their well-being and to the company, because when people are taken care of and their mental wellness and their physical wellness and their sense of belonging goes up, their loyalty and productivity goes up and your company does better. So it really is a win-win if we can accept the reality and then treat people accordingly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was reading some stuff here recently. I think SHRM has a report out they did very in the past few weeks. 44% of US workers are identifying as burned out. And then McKinsey's got some stuff that would say that you know, 50% of people's productivity is down because they don't feel engaged with their work. And then there's just Gen Z, especially seems to you know one. I mean, to their credit, are very self-aware around mental wellness and it's not a stigmatized topic, it's something to be talked about. But because of growing up in the pandemic, the economic environment that we're in right now student loans, all kinds of things that they're just feeling an inordinate amount of pressure Are you finding?
Speaker 3:that the willingness to talk about these kinds of topics is becoming more normalized or is it still more stigmatized? I think it's definitely becoming more normalized. Of a psychologically safe organization where people do feel comfortable sharing their whole range of experience in a healthy way is if the leader talks about it. That is the number one indicator is if someone in leadership it does not have to be the very top, although it's obviously best if they can as well but even a direct manager or someone in leadership is openly discussing the time off options, taking a break or a mental health day, you know, sharing a story, be it personal or just something within their life they've experienced. And the more you can talk about it and normalize it, the more likely people are to feel comfortable asking for help using the resources already provided and taking time off, which again just translates back to better performance.
Speaker 2:So what is an example? That's a great point. I would put that under the headline, like vulnerability and transparency, but say that I'm the CXO at some company. What would an appropriate example be to talk about with, broadly, the company at large and maybe if there's, the kind of things that probably wouldn't be helpful to talk about? Hi everybody, this is Bob Goodwin, president at Career Club. Imagine with me for a minute a workplace where leaders and employees are energized, engaged and operating at their very best. At Career Club, we work with both individuals and organizations to help combat stress and burnout that lead to attrition, disengagement and higher health care costs. We can help your organization and your workforce thrive, boosting both productivity and morale across the board. To learn more about how we might help you and your company, visit us at careerclub.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, we can always start with. What's not helpful is too many personal details, right, people don't need to be overly involved in your story, but you know, some of the most successful things I've seen are people sharing. Oh, you know, I took a walk today. I did a walking one-on-one because when I find that when I move my body I come back and I'm more refreshed, or I'm struggling today or I just need a day for myself. So I'm taking a day off actually taking time off or sharing a story about how you or someone you know or someone in your family use the EAP for connecting with a mental health counselor.
Speaker 3:We offer mental health first aid training. So that has been a big one for us. Is leaders taking that training, advocating for it, supporting other managers and leaders to take the time to go through that training. So it doesn't have to be I struggle with whatever you want to put in the blank there it doesn't have to be that personal. It's really just bringing it up, pointing out resources, talking about what's offered, or a success story at a town hall and a newsletter when open enrollment comes around, highlighting benefits already offered. So these are not big lifts, but they are just a constant drumbeat that it's okay to know about it, talk about it and use these services to actually take care of yourself.
Speaker 2:So can you explain real quick what mental health first aid is?
Speaker 3:Sure, it's a really great program. It's offered by lots of a few places out there, but it teaches people the signs of how to notice someone who might be in mental distress, how to support them very tactically in the moment, how to get them help from a professional. To get them help from a professional when to call a professional and, I think equally important, how to not take on that responsibility to put yourself in either harm's way or in responsibility for the outcome of that situation. Because I do think that is one part that managers get nervous about and leaders like this is tough stuff and I don't like. I feel responsible now and if people don't take the advice or don't get the help, I have failed in some way and I just want to give everybody permission to know that you're not responsible for the outcome or another adult's choices or behavior. All you can do is provide the resources, give a safe space, be an advocate, and the rest is up to them as an adult.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is such an important point to not take ownership of somebody else's choices. That's really an important thing. Last question before we start to wrap up a little bit, if I'm an HR practitioner executive and I'm listening to this, what are some best practices from a resources perspective that you think should be in every company's arsenal?
Speaker 3:Oh, I love this question. I have so many so I'll try and narrow it down. The first one might be unexpected, but I'm going to say the feelings wheel. The Gottman Institute has a great one, and this is a wheel that has core emotion words in the center and then it goes out from there to get more specific. So, as an example, are you mad? So that would be the middle. Or are you angry, or are you jealous? Right, it goes out from there because if you're jealous, that's different than just being mad, and then you can understand that feeling and work through it.
Speaker 3:And the reason I think it's so powerful in a work setting is because we use a lot of electronic communications, be it email chat. You know people hardly talk live anymore unless you're, you know, in person or maybe on a video call. But it's really easy to just get into those basic core feelings and then we're just projecting everything we feel onto this blank written text. And so having more language just really helps people move through it. And also, if you have kids, it's really good because they have even fewer words than we do. Also, you know, having some resiliency practices available, whether it be, you know, starting a meeting with a quick check-in, a meditation. I've seen people start meetings with a two-minute meditation, taking a walk together instead of sitting and talking one-on-one. Also, my favorite is the beauty break, which I just love so much because it's accessible to everyone.
Speaker 3:So if you're having a moment, what I want you to do is remember, either look at a photo or go back in your memory to your most favorite vacation spot where you are just like, yes, I was made to live here, this is my happy place, and just stay in that moment for 30 seconds, for 60 seconds if you can do it, 90 seconds, and it will reset your day and it's so easy.
Speaker 3:Or just look out the window at a pretty flower. I mean, it could literally be anything that just gives you a beauty moment that you breathe into it. And then I guess the last one I would say is there are tons of online reputable resources, like Mental Health America, like NAMI, the National Association of Mental Health, the Trevor Project, the Veterans Crisis Line, the JAN Network. I mean there are so many reputable sites. You do not have to reinvent the wheel on any of these. I mean there are conversation starters, there are toolkits, there are posters. I mean there is so much content out there that for the busy HR professional or for someone who doesn't know where to start, or they're a one person show, there is so much available. Now, I don't think I'll be the first one to tell you this, but not everything on the internet is true and valid, so you definitely want to make sure I know, shocker spoiler alert.
Speaker 3:So you want to make sure you're going to a org or you know a reputable site, but there's a ton out there that you don't have to start from scratch and do it yourself no, that is super, super helpful.
Speaker 2:Thank you for that. One thing I'll add to it is box breathing, which you might know. So that's right. So the breathe in, hold it for four seconds, breathe out for four seconds, hold that and then just sort of rinse and repeat. I'd have to tell you what it is like, overriding, you know, when your emotions just kick in which we don't have very much control over. It's like going to grab the thermostat and say, no, I'm changing the temperature right now. And just by changing your breathing pattern, just calming your body down, has just been so amazing for me, whether I'm anxious about something or angry about something or whatever it might be.
Speaker 2:So great tools If people want to get a copy of your book. There's an elephant in your office. What's the best way to do that?
Speaker 3:you can follow me on LinkedIn, andrea Herron, and links are there as well. I'd love to connect and chat and, yeah, the book is super helpful. I mean, I'm biased, obviously, but it's very tactical with real life.
Speaker 2:I'm biased and I love it too. It's awesome. And then, last last thing, you do a podcast also.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, the HR Scoop, where I get to talk to amazing people like you and others. Anything related to employee wellness, culture, benefits. You know HR life. Check us out.
Speaker 2:Awesome. So let's subscribe to HR Scoop, get a copy of there's an Alpha in your Office and make sure you connect with Andrea Herron on LinkedIn. Andrea, it's been such a pleasure having you, it's great reconnecting with you and thank you so much for sharing what I think we can all agree is just an eminently important topic. It's just great seeing you, thank you.
Speaker 3:It's a pleasure. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Awesome, and thank you everybody from the HR chat audience for taking a few minutes, and please do make sure that you give this a rating and let people know what you think about Bill and his amazing podcast. So thank you, everybody, and we'll see you next time. So if you'll hold on for.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to the HR Chat show. If you enjoyed this episode, why not subscribe and listen to some of the hundreds of episodes published by HR Gazette and remember for what's new in the world of work? Subscribe to the show, follow us on social media and visit hrgazettecom.
