HRchat Podcast
Listen to the HRchat podcast by HR Gazette to get insights and tips from HR leaders, influencers and tech experts. Topics include HR Tech, AI, Leadership, Talent, Recruitment, Employee Engagement, Recognition, Wellness, DEI, and Company Culture.
Hosted by Bill Banham and other HR enthusiasts, the HRchat show publishes interviews with influencers, leaders, analysts, and those in the HR trenches 2-4 times each week. Shows are typically 15 to 30 minutes.
Past guests are from organizations including ADP, SAP, Ceridian, IBM, UPS, Deloitte Consulting LLP, Simon Sinek Inc, NASA, SHRM, Government of Canada, Hacking HR, Ultimate Software, McLean & Company, Microsoft, Shopify, DisruptHR, Talent Board, Virgin Pulse, Salesforce, Make-A-Wish Foundation, and Coca-Cola Beverages Company.
Podcast Music Credit"Funky One"Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
Want to be featured on the show? Learn more here and contact publisher@hr-gazette.com
HRchat Podcast
Empowering Global Remote Work with Nadia Alaee, Deel
The guest this time is Nadia Alaee, Sr Director, HRBP at Deel. Nadia Alaee leads the global HR Business Partnership team at Deel. She and her team develop deep partnerships with Deel’s leaders to support, engage and grow their teams. She partners closely with stakeholders across the organization and the People Team to ensure team members have the best experience from onboarding and through their tenure at Deel. Nadia has worked at tech companies including YouTube and Liftoff Mobile, but found her niche in the startup space, where she can build and scale organizations from zero to a hundred.
Questions for Nadia include:
- We’ve learned by now that remote work isn’t a fleeting fad, and 30% of new companies are fully remote. Tell us about how Deel has scaled as a remote company. What tools are required to grow a company across 150+ countries?
- Studies show that 40% of remote workers feel disconnected from their colleagues. How do HR leaders combat this to make employees feel included and meaningfully connected?
- How should HR leaders create a strong company culture when they have distributed teams? What tools do you use to make sure employee engagement is strong?
- What adages or HR principles need to be challenged? What ideas should replace them instead?
- As the nature of work continues to become more global – what other tips and tricks should HR leaders be aware of? What tools or products help you “hack” your to do list?
We do our best to ensure editorial objectivity. The views and ideas shared by our guests and sponsors are entirely independent of The HR Gazette, HRchat Podcast and Iceni Media Inc.
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Speaker 2:Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show. Hello listeners, this is your host today, bill Bannum, and joining me on this episode is Nadia Elayi, senior Director, hr Business Partner over at Deal. Hey, nadia, how are you today?
Speaker 3:Hi Bill, I'm doing well. It's nice to be on this podcast with you.
Speaker 2:I'm looking forward to chatting Me too, me too.
Speaker 3:So why don't you start by introducing yourself and telling our listeners all about the mission of Deal Sure, so I'm Nadia. As you mentioned, I lead our global HR business partner team here at Deal. I've been here for about two and a half years. We are 4,000 people in 100 countries and we believe in providing access to work anywhere at any company around the globe. So we're really invested in building an HR tech stack that will support companies being able to hire wherever they want. They can pay people through Deal, they can hire them through Deal, off-board through Deal, engage them through our various programs through the Deal platform. So really excited to kind of provide that opportunity for people all around the globe, especially in this remote environment we've all been living in for the past several years.
Speaker 2:OK, rock and roll. And what is your favorite thing about your job? Nadia Gosh good question.
Speaker 3:I think it's working with people from all over the place. I've never worked at a company as global as Deal. Like I said, we're in over a hundred countries I think 105 as of today. I've never worked at an organization that has had that much global scope. Right, we're in almost half the countries in the world, so it's really cool to be able to hire people without seeing location as a boundary and then bring them into the organization with different cultures, different perspectives, different experiences and be able to be in a room with people in all different time zones. I think it only makes our work stronger. It makes our execution of everything stronger. Having different points of views from people from different locations has been really, really special for me, especially from an HR leadership standpoint and a DEIB standpoint. Being able to see that kind of inherent growth happening just because of how we are hiring has been really, really special.
Speaker 4:Thanks for listening to this episode of the HR Chat Podcast. If you enjoy the audio content we produce, you'll love our articles on the HR Gazette. Learn more at HRGazettecom. And now back to the show.
Speaker 2:Okay, now back to the show. Okay, I'd just like to add that I am a big believer in the power of hiring a remote workforce or a global workforce, it doesn't matter, I believe, anymore what time zone you're in. If you can do the job, if you've got the skills, you've got the right attitude, if you can meld with the culture of a company, then you should be given that opportunity. And I feel like you guys have got that kind of mantra about you. In fact, we've learned by now that remote work isn't a fleeting fad and 30 of new companies are fully remote. Nadia, tell us about how deal has scaled as a remote company and and, as part of that, what tools are required to grow a company across, in your case, 150 different places. That's extraordinary. Tell me more.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think I agree with you. In not being able to see location as a barrier and really leaning into remote work and my time at Deal, we've learned that remote work isn't just a different way of working right, it's a way of thinking about how are we communicating and collaborating with each other in this remote space. How are our leaders leading in a remote space? What are the team dynamics? Right? People in different countries, in different locations. Maybe they don't have anyone in the city they're in or they have a lot of people.
Speaker 5:What does?
Speaker 3:that look like Remote work, though, for us, has always been our standard. We have 4,000 team members spread in 100 plus countries, and we've been that way since the beginning. We kind of were created during the early pandemic time and we've learned a lot about how to keep our teams connected, how to keep people motivated and make sure people are productive. I think there's a lot of talk these days about return to office and how companies really believe that people are less productive at home, working remote, and we just don't subscribe to that. So, as an HR tech platform ourselves, much of our own method is made possible by the product we sell right? We're kind of our own biggest customer. How can we leverage our HR tech stack to really make sure our team members feel connected, they feel motivated and engaged in the work they're doing and they're productive even while being remote? This means that we use a lot of the products that we sell to hire and pay and manage and engage all of our global workforce global and distributed and you have to start with basics right. So hiring, number one, that's the biggest challenge when growing a global company. We hire, we offer kind of these global hiring solutions for both full-time and independent contractors and we own that infrastructure right for all of these solutions. So that means we have compliance, we have legal, we have policy expertise all in-house that kind of help us advise on how we can hire in all these different countries with different worker types. So we like to kind of stay on top of all of the trends and the changes that are happening every day right in this environment and we've been able to scale our own business by leveraging our own product. I think. Second to that is how we think about compensation right. Once we get past the compliance piece right, the person is able to work in this country with this worker type.
Speaker 3:The next kind of hurdle we think about is payroll. We've recently acquired a company called Payspace and M&A activity is really huge for us to be able to leverage other products that are in the market to build up our own tech stack right and make deal really, really powerful for all of our clients. So pay space with pay space, we own most of the native payroll engines in the world so we can pay people in more than 90 countries with native payroll engines and more than 50. And that's growing. So it sounds boring but that's a hurdle right as an as an HR person, we have to think about payroll. I think one of the most important things when you think about delivering good experience to your team members internally is number one. We're like pay them on time and correctly right. That's so huge, especially in a global workforce right, making sure that is really stable and our payroll operations are going well.
Speaker 3:I think, lastly, is engagement. We talk about this a lot in the HR space. How are we engaging global team members in all different countries, all different time zones? But we really, really invest in engagement and productivity right. We acquired a company, we acquired a suite of products that now we're calling Deal Engage and they offer just that right. Engagement. How are you managing performance? How are you managing leveling and learning management right, to make sure your team members have the resources and access?
Speaker 3:to learning tools they might need for their jobs. Um, but yeah, we're excited to really be able to think about this in a three-fold way. How are we hiring people, bringing the right people into the organization compliantly, how are we paying them on time? And then how are we engaging them?
Speaker 2:from within. Okay, wonderful, thank you very much. Let's follow that last point around engagement forward. If you don't mind, let's throw in some extra words in there, belonging connectivity perhaps now. Then personally, I've been working in a mainly remote capacity for gosh. Let me see here I moved up from the UK to Toronto in uh and uh.
Speaker 2:That was in a remote work, so since 2012 in some fashion or another, so a long time you are the expert and and uh, I'm acutely aware that working remotely can be a bit lonely sometimes, frankly. So what I do is I build communities and I host events about ai or about HR, about leadership, all around the world. That seems to help, but studies show that 40% of remote workers, nadia, feel disconnected from their colleagues. How do HR leaders? So let's offer some practical advice here. You spoke a moment ago about the case study of DL itself and how you guys do it, but generally, what would be your advice for HR leaders looking to combat? Combat this, to make employees feel more included, to make them feel like they are connected and that they belong yeah, really good question.
Speaker 3:I think isolation is one of the greatest challenges of operating in this remote workspace, right, we? We find that connectivity, camaraderie amongst your peers, people that you're working with every day, creating that strong team culture, is really, really essential. Then what are we doing across teams that are spread across all different locations to be able to cultivate that? So, first, we know that this takes time and it takes resources. It's not going to happen overnight. You're not going to start a company, hire a bunch of remote people and people are going to feel really connected to the organization. So, hr leaders and senior leaders, right, you really want buy-in from your executive team, from your senior leaders, from people who've been at the organization for a long time, those tenured kind of advocates, right, to show that care and attention, that it's possible, right, it's possible to cultivate team culture and feel connected even if you're distributed. But culture creating this culture really starts at the top. So, really really leveraging your senior leadership to really be bought into that mission and be bought into the goal of. Hey, it's important for us to make sure that we invest in making sure all of our employees feel connected, even if they're not in the same place. I think second is creating a culture where values and goals are really shared. I think at Deal especially and we don't I think we're very humble about this and how we speak about our mission and how mission driven we are as an organization and as a workforce, but you can tell that every person who's working at Deal and every call you're on, everyone's really invested in the work deal is doing right. We all believe in providing that access to opportunity, no matter where you are, and if you can do that through deal, we want to be a part of that kind of growth and success. So we really really live our values and mission internally and having that strong sense of a shared purpose right Can help remote employees feel connected right Because you're really connected at a baseline from at this larger mission. And if we're bringing in new hires and cultivating that kind of culture from within, people are going to naturally feel connected right Because we're jumping on a meeting and we're all. We have one goal that we're all trying to solve together. So how can we do that? So we're really really anchored in our values. We're anchored in our quarterly OKR process and we have leaders talk about our values. We celebrate our values. We have kudos channels where we recognize all of our team really really anchor in that and it's really important for us to live that in our real life and really instill the values and the mission across how we're growing and developing all of our team members. I think shared values and goals are really really critical in a remote environment and being really clear and transparent about what those shared values and goals are.
Speaker 3:I think last or I guess third, as I talk about this, is leaning into transparency. Transparency and overcommunication. Whenever I interview any candidates or talk to anyone who may be interested in joining Deal, I'm really clear company goals about our decisions, any changes we're making, what that impact has on their role. Really being clear about communication and being transparent makes people feel valued, right. They feel part of the company's growth. They feel part of the decision-making. They understand the why behind why we're doing something.
Speaker 3:So really building that culture of trust right through transparency. One example of that is every quarter we have a board company and we want people to understand that. We want to also be open about how the organization is doing and what is our path forward. And where do you kind of fit into that? We share news about acquisitions. Like I said, we really believe in acquiring different companies in the market that really could add value to deals overall product. So kind of continuing to build on that theme of trust right, it's really important. Even if something is confidential, can we share it internally, with the caveat that, hey, this is confidential piece of share, but we want you to know that this is coming and this is something you can also be excited about. So, building that culture of trust through transparency, through over-communicating they're sharing as much as we can with our team members so they continue to feel bought into our shared mission and our values at a company. I think is really key for remote team members to feel motivated and engaged in a really global remote environment.
Speaker 5:Once in a while, an event series is born that shakes things up, it makes you think differently and it leaves you inspired. That event is Disrupt HR. The format is 14 speakers, 5 minutes each and slides rotate every 15 seconds. If you're an HR professional, a CEO, a technologist or a community leader and you've got something to say about talent, culture or technology, disrupt is the place.
Speaker 2:It's coming soon to a city near you. Learn more at disrupthrco. Okay, thank you. So regular listeners of this show will know that I try to remain an objective editorial dude on the pod. However, sometimes I jump straight out there and say what I believe. This and one of the things I believe, as I mentioned earlier, is the power of being able to hire folks, no matter where they are, no matter what time zone they're in, if they are the right fit. But let's try and claw that back just for a moment so I can pull back some of my editorial credibility and objectivity here. Nadia, if you don't mind. There are obviously clear benefits to being in person, right, yes, particularly perhaps for junior folks. I think back to my early career and all that stuff I learned about office politics I just learned by osmosis, by sitting around. These people can. Can we ever really replace that?
Speaker 3:we say that and we say I say a lot of the time that managing a deal is one of the hardest places to manage. Right, it's really complex. We have several worker types across 105 countries with 4,000 team members, so we put a lot of onus and responsibility on our people managers. We really look critically about when we promote someone into a people manager role, because we think it's so important as a part of an employee's life cycle in a remote environment, to have a manager that's really communicating with them, checking in on them, giving them feedback, giving them that coaching, recognizing them for the things they're doing well and being able to develop them in this remote space, even when they don't see each other in person. Right. And then, alongside that, how, as a company, are we creating kind of these cultural markers? Right, we have so many Slack channels that are extremely active, right, everything from Taylor Swift channel to reality TV to travel. There's a lot of channels where people are like, hey, I'm going to be out of my apartment for two weeks. If anyone wants to come stay in my apartment in Amsterdam, like, go for it.
Speaker 3:So a lot of that kind of engagement in culture and building that rapport with your team members that you may never meet in person right, there's a chance that you may never see this person but you've kind of built that relationship based on a common interest or based on something you all find funny or based on a game that you're all playing together. For example, some of our people team members are really into a game called Waffles. We have a competitive waffle channel. If you haven't heard of it, check it out. But yeah, I think it's a lot on the company to kind of start building that culture and also on the people manager to kind of cultivate and really train that person on things and give them feedback right about. Maybe they had an interaction that didn't go well on Slack. How can we give that person coaching and feedback how they could have approached that situation differently, so really being able to manage our team members in this remote workforce and then also being able to cultivate that culture.
Speaker 2:Taking a step back from that, nadia. How does one go about finding employees who will work well remotely, who will add something to the company despite being far away in a different locale? Fitting with that remote first culture is getting more common, it's becoming more the norm. Obviously. Everybody experienced it for about a year and a half, regardless, and we had a wonderful testament. But you know, are there special qualities of folks who will work best or, uh, very well in a remote capacity?
Speaker 3:yeah, certainly, and we definitely vet for that in our hiring process. We've had situations where, uh, maybe we've mishired someone and we brought them into the organization and they realized you know what remote work isn't for me. I really want to be in an office environment and we take learnings away from each of those situations, reviewing all the notes, et cetera. But I think someone who can really be a strong remote worker is someone with really strong communication skills. I think that's so key in a remote space over communicating, oversharing, where you can being really transparent, being able to communicate in writing to your team members, to your stakeholders, your manager, in a way that resonates with them like really understanding your audience when you're writing in Slack. We work so intensely in Slack, we have so many threads. Slack is our office right, because we don't have physical offices. So someone who's a really strong communicator is really key, I think. Second to that is collaboration being able to really collaborate async. We err on the side of less meetings, more async work, because we are again in so many different time zones. Sometimes it's hard to get people in four time zones into a room together. So how can we really leverage async work so someone who's a really strong collaborator, understands the problems wants to solve.
Speaker 3:I think problem solving and collaboration are really huge for people in a remote space, because if you can't catch someone on the fly in an office when you're going to grab lunch, talk about something. You have to be really strong and be able to collaborate async. I think that's also huge. And then again, I think it goes back to values and mission driven. People who really believe in what the company is doing will be engaged in the company's work, even despite being remote or not being in an office space. Being in an office space right, Someone who really believes and wants to come into this business, wants to solve the problems that we are solving, which are big problems, wants to kind of be a part of executing on the challenges that we have been delivering for our customers. And someone who's really bought into that mission and bought into the values of the company will be strong in a remote space because every day they show up to solve the problems that we have to solve.
Speaker 2:You have spoken consistently throughout this conversation about the power of communication. Nadia, you are obviously an excellent communicator yourself, congratulations. I wonder if, when you look back on your career, was there one particular manager that inspired you through their communication, through the way that they engage with you and your colleagues. You don't have to mention names at all, but maybe perhaps share an anecdote about how that inspired you to become a better communicator, to become a better colleague, to become a better leader, employee, all those other things.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a really good question. I read a book that was recommended to me about two managers ago I feel like it was. The author was Minto I'll have to find it later but it was about executive communication and being able to communicate in a way that resonated to your audience Right, and I've. That really has stuck with me throughout my career. I think we have to be really and flexibility and nimbleness are really something I subscribe to. So, like I don't believe in a one size fits all. The way I may communicate to you, bill, might be different than how I communicate to my manager or how I communicate to one of my direct reports, and I really try to tailor my communication style to resonate with the person receiving the message. And I think that's really also key in remote environments, right, and I think that's really also key in remote environments, right.
Speaker 3:I really subscribe to like how can I write a message to be as succinct as possible and really leverage kind of executive communication? What is the problem, what are the details that you need and what is a potential action or recommendation to really be able to work effectively and efficiently? Like that's really important to me in an async space. So I really take a step back and think about how I'm going to respond to something. I think about how I'm going to write something.
Speaker 3:I'm really thoughtful about written and verbal communications because I want resolve things as quick as possible. Right, we work really quickly at deal and deal speed is one of our values and if I can write something in a way that's going to be easier for people to digest, whoever that audience may be, and easier to resolve, that that's kind of what I subscribe to. So I try to be really thoughtful about my verbal and written communications and I know that's so important in a remote space. I've really been able to cultivate that in the last four or five years being remote. But, yeah, this book really kind of propelled me into thinking about and this manager had recommended this book, so had really propelled me and it was a growth opportunity for me too right, the recommendation of reading the book. But that really kind of propelled me into thinking about executive communications and how I think about that and being really thoughtful about it.
Speaker 2:Nadia, we are running out of time, I'm very sad to say. The average episode at the moment is around 23 minutes. We don't like to go much longer than that, because our audience are terribly busy and they get on with other things. I'm sure, or perhaps that's just how long it takes for them to take their dog for a walk. I don't know, um, but what that means is I'm going to combine, uh, the penultimate question now, so it's going to be a long one, okay, as the nature of work continues to become more global, nadia, what other tips and tricks should hr leaders be aware of in your opinion? And, as part of that, what tools or products help you hack your to-do list? So, for example, you mentioned Slack earlier. And finally, as part of this question, what tools do you use to make sure that employees are as engaged as possible?
Speaker 3:Okay, good, good loaded question. I'll try to get to all of them. So when I think about kind of tips and tricks, we have a lot. I think one of the things that we really subscribe to in our culture is accountability goals. That's really important for us and we really instill that in people managers right to help own the performance of each of their team members alongside with and in collaboration with that team member. Right.
Speaker 3:We believe in the importance of ongoing and frequent performance management, right. Traditionally we used to kind of do this biannual process. It was very intense and we thought it was too infrequent, right. The speed at which we're moving a deal and how quickly we're growing really meant that we needed to lean into providing meaningful feedback and development opportunities on a really ongoing basis. So we shifted our approach to be a little bit more dynamic. So we embrace really ongoing feedback through our own solution deal, engage and providing that continuous improvement just allows people to adapt and align better to their work and especially in this remote work environment. So really leaning into ongoing performance management, I think that's key so people kind of know where they stand and where they need to improve and then that continues to motivate them.
Speaker 3:I think delegation right, motivate them. I think delegation right being able to kind of empower your teams in this remote space to manage their workload and creating an environment where team members feel trusted right. That makes sure if someone feels trusted, if they feel like their manager trusts them, they're going to be more motivated and they're going to be more equipped to kind of excel at their work. So, bringing in the right talent we look for candidates that possess, as we discussed, traits that align really well with working remote strong communication skills, being really disciplined, able to work independently and autonomously. Those are really really important traits as we think about hiring, setting goals and delegating much to my team as I can right, trusting them, providing them with measurable goals for their OKRs and then empowering them to kind of take ownership of their projects and make decisions and come to me when they need help strategically.
Speaker 3:But this allows people to be able to work autonomously and motivates them right, because they have that higher sense of ownership and they can be committed to that success of a project and really be on top of it. And then flexibility, I think, is really key. We do not have a concept of setting a working schedule, because we have team members in all different time zones around the world. There's people who take Fridays off for Shabbat, people who work Sundays instead, there's people who start their days late after dropping their kids at school or taking a morning language class. Right, we're really really flexible in allowing team members to manage their own work schedules and methods and that kind of empowers them to take an approach that works best for them and we have seen that leads to better creativity and productivity. Right, being able to manage your own schedule. But we're also delivering against all of your OKRs and what you're responsible for. And, yeah, if we see gaps in that, we could address, for sure, performance wise. But we really believe in being flexible, I think when I think about how we continue to think about tips and tricks. Also, like I said, we really believe in async work. So we discourage lots of meetings. We're not the company that everyone's calendar is full from 8 am to 5 pm. Our leadership really emphasizes kind of having frequent one-on-one meetings, like getting on a huddle to solve something, not being able to have kind of quick ad hoc discussions and make all of our decision making really agile, really efficient, really fast. So our leadership team also supports that from the top right. Our executive team is always available to meet with you quickly if you have a question on something very approachable. And on that same lens, we don't subscribe too much to hierarchy right. For us, being inclusive is really important, so we don't see that hierarchy. Like I said, our leadership team is always available to talk to all levels of the organization. We have regular feedback loops. We include people in decision-making. Our CEO is always available to talk to all levels of the organization. We have regular feedback loops. We include people in decision-making. Our CEO is always sending messages being like hey, I have 30 minutes right now. Who wants to jump on a call? I want to hear how you're doing, what are you working on, do you have any questions? So having a really approachable leadership team and really not thinking about hierarchy too strictly is really key for us. And then performance, like I mentioned, like being really thoughtful about how we manage performance.
Speaker 3:And then I think one of your questions were how you think about tools, tools or products. That I kind of hack when I think about working really actively in a remote space. For me, key is automation and workflows. So, as you are creating and cultivating this global workforce, especially one that is remote organizations are growing really quickly.
Speaker 3:So, really being open to testing new technologies, testing a new workflow or process, making changes to a policy if you need to, but really leaning into automation and workflow, we are always looking up to how to optimize all of our processes to make it really really usable by everyone involved, right, and how can we make it easier and more approachable? And, as much as we can automate, as much as we can create a workflow that works for everyone who's involved as a part of a process, we lean into that and then we also iterate on it, right, we're really open to change. I think that's one of our biggest kind of things that we think about at deal is being able to iterate as we go, changing a policy to better resonate with someone, changing a headcount request, reorganizing a business unit to respond to a customer need. We're really being open and flexible to change and like knowing that change is kind of a constant and we're always kind of responding to the needs of the business. And if we have to make changes, for example to a workflow of a constant and we're always kind of responding to the needs of the business and if we have to make changes, for example, to a workflow or a policy, we're really open to doing that.
Speaker 3:And then I really root into Slack being our office. We call Slack our office space. Right, we were fully remote. We don't have physical offices. We really lean into kind of quick collaboration and communication on Slack and async and less meetings and being able to kind of leverage. That kind of communication and collaboration through Slack is really important for us in this global space.
Speaker 2:Well, I created a giant question for you and you gave me a meaty answer. Nadia, we are almost out of time before we do wrap up for today. How can our listeners connect with you? So maybe that's LinkedIn email address I bet you're super cool all over TikTok and places and, of course, how can they learn more about what's going on over at Deal?
Speaker 3:Sure, I'm actually not super cool and not on TikTok, so I feel like I'd be too addicted to it, so I've stayed on.
Speaker 3:TikTok, but you can find me on LinkedIn, nadia Alai. Email me, nadia at dealcom, always happy to connect with people, answer any questions anyone has. Visit dealcom for any questions about our products. We have a really big presence also on LinkedIn. We launch a lot of blogs, we collaborate with a lot of different companies and do programming like this too. So really really active in the community and always happy to talk to any other HR leaders or anyone who has any questions or interested in deal. Reach out to me directly and I'll connect you to the right person.
Speaker 2:Perfect. Well, that just leaves me to say for today Nadia, thank you very much for being my guest.
Speaker 3:Thank you very much for having me. It was lovely to speak with you I want to do it again very soon, Nadia. Likewise.
Speaker 2:But for today, listeners, as always, always, until next time, happy working thanks for listening to the hr chat show.
Speaker 1:if you enjoyed this episode, why not subscribe and listen to some of the hundreds of episodes published by hr gazette and remember for what's new in the world of work? Subscribe to the show, follow us on social media and visit HRGazettecom.
