HRchat Podcast
Listen to the HRchat Podcast by HR Gazette to get insights and tips from HR leaders, influencers and tech experts. Topics covered include HR Tech, HR, AI, Leadership, Talent, Recruitment, Employee Engagement, Recognition, Wellness, DEI, and Company Culture.
Hosted by Bill Banham, Bob Goodwin, Pauline James, and other HR enthusiasts, the HRchat show publishes interviews with influencers, leaders, analysts, and those in the HR trenches 2-4 times each week.
The show is approaching 1000 episodes and past guests are from organizations including ADP, SAP, Ceridian, IBM, UPS, Deloitte Consulting LLP, Simon Sinek Inc, NASA, Gartner, SHRM, Government of Canada, Hacking HR, McLean & Company, UPS, Microsoft, Shopify, DisruptHR, McKinsey and Co, Virgin Pulse, Salesforce, Make-A-Wish Foundation, and Coca-Cola Beverages Company.
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Podcast Music Credit"Funky One"Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
HRchat Podcast
Episode 750 - Revolutionizing Company Culture with Liz Ryan
Ever wondered how an opera and punk rock singer becomes a leading voice in HR? Liz Ryan, CEO and founder of Human Workplace, shares her incredible journey with HRchat host, Bill Banham.
From stage lights to boardrooms, Liz has passionately advocated for transforming workplaces into environments where energy and collaboration thrive. Despite initial skepticism, her mission to humanize work has resonated with professionals worldwide, earning her a top influencer spot on LinkedIn.
Liz's unique perspective on lifting up the human spirit within companies is a testament to her innovative approach in the HR world.
Join us as we uncover practical strategies for revolutionizing company culture with Liz Ryan. Learn the importance of hiring a diverse workforce, fostering an atmosphere where every employee feels empowered to share their ideas, and championing a culture of trust.
By aligning personal and business visions with the CEO, says Liz, HR leaders can create a collaborative, innovative, and desirable workplace. We also explore how to enhance recruitment processes, onboarding, and leadership communication to build an inclusive environment that energizes everyone involved.
Don't miss this insightful conversation on transforming organizational culture with one of HR's most influential voices!
We do our best to ensure editorial objectivity. The views and ideas shared by our guests and sponsors are entirely independent of The HR Gazette, HRchat Podcast and Iceni Media Inc.
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The HRchat show has had 100,000s of downloads and is frequently listed as one of the most popular global podcasts for HR pros, Talent execs and leaders. It is ranked in the top ten in the world based on traffic, social media followers, domain authority & freshness. The podcast is also ranked as the Best Canadian HR Podcast by FeedSpot and one of the top 10% most popular shows by Listen Score.
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Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's most downloaded and shared podcasts designed for HR pros, talent execs, tech enthusiasts and business leaders. For hundreds more episodes and what's new in the world of work, subscribe to the show, follow us on social media and visit hrgazettecom and visit HRGazettecom.
Speaker 2:Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show. Hello, listeners, this is your host today, bill Bannam, and in this episode, we're going to discuss the hiring process, company culture and the relationship between HR leaders and the C-suite. My guest today is HR royalty. Yes, listeners, I have finally managed to convince the amazing Liz Ryan, ceo and founder of Human Workplace, to join me on the show, and I'm super excited about it. Human Workplace is a publishing, coaching and consulting firm whose mission is to reinvent work for people, and Liz is also the author of Reinvention Roadmap. Liz, I just can't begin to tell you what an honor it is to have you on the show today. Thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 3:Oh, it's totally my pleasure, bill, thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:So we've had around 750 guests on the HR chat pod over the years. You've been on my wish list for quite some time. You're straight up there right at the top. I'm very excited for this. I can't imagine there's many people out there who listen to an HR pod who don't know you, liz. But just in case there's a couple, why don't you start by taking a minute or two and introducing yourself a bit to our audience?
Speaker 3:I've been an HR person since it was called personnel Okay, and I fell into HR like a lot of folks. I'm not sure, pretty sure there was no degree or certification at the time, but and actually reluctantly, I didn't want to be in HR. My boss shoved me into HR and said we need you in there. So I did it. But my background is opera. I'm a classical singer and a punk rock singer and all kinds of things back in the day. But I just fell in love with the opportunity to create an environment where people could thrive. To me it was very theatrical. This is exactly like going into a theater and creating an emotional space where people can just do great things they would be much less likely to do in another setting. So my whole thing is lifting up, lifting up people, lifting up the energy, making HR and companies and work and collaboration really just a high point rather than something that we just do because we have to.
Speaker 4:Thanks for listening to this episode of the HR Chat Podcast. If you enjoy the audio content we produce, you'll love our articles on the HR Gazette. Learn more at hrgazettecom. And now back to the show.
Speaker 2:I love that. Thank you very much, Liz. I'm kind of tempted to ask you to answer all the other questions while singing.
Speaker 3:Singing the answers but no problem, how about just one? Give me one and tell me what genre or style you want you know what I think? That's a part two, okay could be a little Gilbert and Sullivan, or queen, or you tell me, man, whatever, whatever you're fancy I was.
Speaker 2:I was playing queen for my four-year-old boy for the first time just a couple of days ago. We put it on the big screen, uh, on youtube, and he was like whoa, queen's amazing.
Speaker 3:So I've got oh, what a little rocker.
Speaker 2:I love it, I love it uh, liz, as I mentioned in the intro, you are super famous. I think you've got something like three million followers on LinkedIn and um. You're known for probably best known for talking about the human side of work, which resonates with HR leaders and employees, of course. Can you share how you became one of the top LinkedIn influencers in the world?
Speaker 3:Well, you know what, bill? I think it's a good message, and that is when I wrote my first story for LinkedIn. I said this is dumb. No one's going to read this. No one's going to this is. I don't even know what this is. They're not going to like it, okay, well, whatever, what are you going to do? Didn't throw it out there and I, you know, six people followed me, or something like that.
Speaker 3:It's that way with everything that you might want to do, talking to your listeners. Now, you obviously have figured that out a long time ago. It's, it's. It throws some spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks. You don't know, but I will say this If you have an idea and you feel a little bit passionately about it, it's connected to you, your power source. Other people are going to feel the same way you do. When I started writing about the human side of work and how to make work human and how to feel your power, it was not a common topic at all. It was. It was I'd gotten a lot of hate mail, a lot of hate mail over the years, and it's well too bad. This is how I feel. I'm going to keep saying it and let people gather around who feel the same way I do, and now it's 3 million people. So it's just a lesson. I think about speaking your truth and seeing what happens.
Speaker 2:What a great answer. It's about speaking your truth, being authentic, and people will buy into that. I love that. Okay, so here we we are. We're in this post-pandemic, very changed world, liz, but why do you believe? Here's a quote from you. Uh, it is no longer optional to lead a company through trust and implement human focused practices um, well, the pandemic thing.
Speaker 3:I would only just slightly push back. I'm'm very big on COVID awareness. It's not pandemic's not over, right, we're in a massive surge right now, but that's just a turn of phrase. Yes, the pandemic in the United States, where I live, killed a million people and there's several million more debilitated. They can't work.
Speaker 3:Employers, although they were very big a couple of years ago, you will get back to the office. Yeah, not so much. The CEO of Goldman Sachs actually decreed everybody who doesn't come back this coming Monday real thing, this is it. You guys, this official you will be back is going to get disciplined and eventually fired. And then, when only 50% of the folks came back, they didn't do it.
Speaker 3:It's kind of like a little toothless. It's kind of like the emperor doesn't really have a lot of clothes on. You know what I'm saying, bill. So I think people are feeling their power a little bit more. This is not, by the way, some kind of. You know, I'm so privileged that I will not bow down to my boss.
Speaker 3:It's kind of like some people cannot, cannot, logistically, physically, financially, whatever go to an office every day and we are figuring out they don't have to. We shouldn't have to figure that out, because since the 80s or even the 70s, people have been collaborating across long distances, but we are getting, slowly, an awareness that work is going to have to change if we're going to be able to hire and retain the people we want and, even more importantly, to keep people excited about what they're doing. It doesn't just happen by putting up a building and running a job ad. So I think that there was a period in the 80s and 90s and into the aughts where a lot of corporate leaders believed that there's a mechanism you just organize departments and set a pay scale and create a policy handbook and people will show up to do these jobs. And that's not true anymore. That is not true.
Speaker 3:One of the biggest competitors for talent is not another employer but self-employment. People are leaving the corporate world in droves and you know who goes first the smartest and most marketable people I mean, that's the reality or the people with the most confidence and so employers really have to grab hold of this awareness and step into it. Lots and lots of ways to do that, if you want to talk about that later, but that is what we see the war for talent If you Google the term war for talent or talent shortage. You get 70 million search results back instantly. It's not an issue that is going away. It's not projected to go away at any point in the next 10 years.
Speaker 5:This episode of the HR Chat Podcast is supported by Nebula Academy, a technology industry-focused workforce accelerator that offers learning programs to prepare individuals for successful careers. Our approach is centered around cognitive neuroscience research, combining the latest research and modern learning methods to create informative and psychologically safe learning experiences. Our programs enable individuals to achieve career readiness and immediate impact in their chosen field. Moreover, we help businesses create positive learning experiences, increase productivity, enhance team performance and build upskilling resources to meet the needs of today's modern workplace. Learn more at nebulaacademycom Thanks, and now back to the HR Chat Show.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely. Dot com thanks. And now back to the hr chat show. No, absolutely. I mean, the us is in a better situation than a lot of countries out there in terms of its population pyramid and whatnot and the talent pool they can, can pull from. But uh, you know, look at countries like italy and japan as examples. With with um fewer young people, that that contributes to the war for talent To your point. You've got this giant gig workforce now and many, many other factors. Anyway, this is not an interview with me. This is an interview with you, so I'll shut up and keep asking the questions. Liz, how can leaders create a culture of honesty? You spoke about honesty and authenticity a moment ago. How can they get buy-in as part of that? How can they get buy-in from the of that? How can they get buy-in from the C-suite?
Speaker 3:Well, okay, so how can they get buy-in from the C-suite? Okay, so that's a very good question. I should mention that people in these countries you're talking about the UK and Italy and all of Europe and the EU and all of the industrialized world except the US. You mentioned that things are a little bit better in the US because of some very overt talent shortages. But we also have this real big impediment to trust in the US enormous and that is employment at will, the legal doctrine that says in the US your employer can just say you're sacked, that's it, you're out, bye, they don't need a reason and they don't need to pay severance and they don't need to give you notice. So that's a huge barrier to trust, obviously, because it's not just the fact that you're gone and you're made redundant or you're sacked, you're fired, terminated and you don't get paid. It's that all of your behavior up until that point is also very influenced by that fear. If I say the wrong thing, if I do the wrong thing, then I'm history, I'm gone. So you have that advantage in the UK that they can't just let you go for no reason.
Speaker 3:But I think that the question has so much import in it, bill, when you say how do they sell the idea of a trusting management style to the C-suite? Because the question is, why would they have to? Why would that require selling? Can we treat our employees like valued collaborators? Can we treat our employees with the same respect that we show a vendor or a consultant who works with us? And the innate answer, whether it's verbalized or not, is no, probably not.
Speaker 3:Why? Why is fear baked into the employment paradigm? Why is this idea of a social underling, a social inferior, baked in? Because it is, bill, it's baked in. It's baked in A lot of too much awareness or sensitivity to level chain of command. This person is senior to me. You're not allowed to say that. It's in there and we need to talk about it and we need to uncover why we hire smart people. So why then do we immediately diminish that? And we don't do that, interestingly, with independent business people.
Speaker 3:If you call the plumber and you say my kid stuffed their sock down the drain I know you've had things like that happen, bill. I know you've had that experience having to call a service person because the darling child did something. Okay, but we don't say to them can you tell me about a time when you got an object for an object out of a drain Because they'd slam the phone down. If phones were still slammable, they would be gone, and so we don't have that idea of I'm socially superior to you. But in the working world we do, we do, and that's the reason that we have to, as HR leaders, sell the idea of treating our employees as actually equal to us. That's toxic right there and requires and demands a lot more conversation and acknowledgement, in my view.
Speaker 6:This episode of the HR Chat podcast is supported by my Staff Shop, the UK's only employee-owned employee benefit provider. We provide a range of competitive and flexible employee benefit solutions to help you improve your employee value proposition, From exclusive deals and discounts to help your people stretch their salaries to effective reward and recognition programs and a comprehensive health and well-being offering. We pride ourselves on our friendly and collaborative way of working, putting the interest of our clients at the heart of everything we do. Learn more at mystaffshopcom. Thanks, and now back to the HR Chat Show.
Speaker 2:So what are some steps to try and improve that? So, for example, is that around hiring a workforce which is more diverse, folks who are more willing to, to lead up, if you like to, to, to contribute their ideas to, to try and change the company culture from, from the bottom up. That has any impact.
Speaker 3:I think it is. I think it's HR leaders I hope that I am one speaking their truth and making this a cultural imperative to say I will take this job and help you grow your company to accomplish whatever your business goals are, your own exit strategy to go public, to be sold, to consolidate with other, whatever it is. I will do all of that with the understanding articulated in my contract, by the way, that this is going to be a company that is going to run on trust. That's my brand, that's your brand. If you value that, it's our brand and it's our engine. It's everything.
Speaker 3:Bill, I worked for a company that was teeny, had under a hundred employees. When I left, there were 10,000 employees and we had a huge brand and we got 5,000 unsolicited resumes, CVs a month, unconnected to our job ads, because people wanted to work there. You create a magnet or you create a force field, and that's your choice, and you do it through the reputation of the place. It's not a PR thing, although PR is great, but it's the reputation that just emanates and everybody knows this is a great place to work and as HR people, we have an unbelievable opportunity to create that.
Speaker 3:And when the leader themselves and their attitudes is the obstacle. Then we have to figure out whether there's a sales process, an education process that I can step into here or whether I have to go somewhere else where it's more amenable and more fertile ground. And this is the challenge on HR people, it isn't the kind of job you can do well if you don't believe it, and we can all get better at selling. But if you're pushing a rock uphill for so long that you're getting depleted, you owe it to yourself and the working world to move on. Sorry, I was just going to say I didn't really answer. How do you sell an executive? I can talk about that if you'd like.
Speaker 2:I would, yeah, tell us a bit more that managing up piece is very important Absolutely.
Speaker 3:So your leaders have a goal and, with luck, that is well articulated. Here's our plan. Here's our grand vision. Here's what we want to do in the world. We have the greatest hot sauce ever known to mankind. We have a hot sauce that will blow sriracha and Tabasco sauce off the map. Okay, I don't know if those are popular products where you are built, but we have the greatest. Whatever we have a consumer product or an industrial product or a service, we have something we think is magnificent, great. That's the business vision.
Speaker 3:You, my CEO the door is closed. It's just you and me. What's your personal vision for yourself? Wow, that's a pretty forward question, liz. Yeah, but I have to know, because I'm supporting that too. Are you trying to retire from here? Are you trying to sell this business? Are you trying to use this as a platform to become a thought leader and speak around the world? It's fine, whatever it is, I just need to know, because I'm supporting that as well. Okay, well, thank you, I think you could help me work through this, but right now I feel like I'd like to be here probably another 10 years, accomplish some of these goals that we talk about and then maybe, who knows, do some kind of early retirement, write a book? I don't know. I do have some creative ideas I'd like okay, brilliant, okay. So we have those two really, really critical pieces your personal strategy or vision, and then the business vision and the intersection of those. That's amazing.
Speaker 3:So now my job is to fill in where we need to shift or or or explore to create a bigger vision that a lot more people can get involved in, because the worst thing we could do is to say there's the vision for 15 people at the top of the organization and there it shuts off. Now there's a force field, 10 foot thick concrete barrier. Everybody else is an employee. We pay you according to the schedule. We pay you twice a month. Here's the rules, here's the policies. This is what it is. That good energy, that excitement, that fizz, that pixie dust has to go all the way down. It has to go all the way down and throughout the organization, and that's my job is to take away barriers, or to help you take away barriers that are keeping that good energy from flowing, because it's where all the good ideas come from, it's where the collaboration comes from, and so the specific things you're going to see me doing my beautiful CEO is looking at our recruiting process.
Speaker 3:It's not going to be brutal and unfriendly and slow and cumbersome and insulting. We're not doing any of that. It's going to be awesome. It's going to be a competitive advantage for us and you're going to see that within a year. We're going to look at our onboarding. We're going to look at our leadership and our leadership communication and we're not going to be putting people on a PIP performance improvement nonsense. We're not going to be treating people like criminals or wayward children. That's over. If you did that in the past with a different HR leader, that's the old school and I believe you were misled, but God bless. But but you're not going to be misled anymore. We're going to celebrate everybody here because you know what we trust ourselves as leaders enough to trust the people we hire. And if we can't do that, we're going to work on ourselves, because that's not them, that's us.
Speaker 2:I love that. Thank you very much, liz. I can't believe this. We are already coming towards the end of this particular conversation. I should have booked longer with you because I've got so many things I want to ask you. Um, just a couple more quick questions, if you don't mind. Um, in fact, given the time constraint, I'm going to challenge you for the next answer to answer me in 60 seconds or less. If you often suggest that the recruiting process is broken, you just mentioned the recruiting process in your previous answer. What do you mean by this, and how is AI helping to fix it, if indeed it is?
Speaker 3:Recruiting is broken. The job ads are horrible. They don't describe what we're trying to do or specifically why anybody should be excited to come and apply, which is the whole point. It's an ad. Once people apply, a lot of them never hear anything back. That's unacceptable. That's our own brand. I couldn't make myself not respond to someone who I asked them to do. That Questions an interview. It's old school, it's insulting, it's ineffective and I don't think AI is the answer at all. I think it needs to be more human, not less.
Speaker 2:Oh, you had like 20 seconds to spare. Amazing, Amazing. And just finally for today, Liz. How can our listeners connect with you? How can they become one of your three million plus followers on LinkedIn? How can they learn more about all the cool things that you're getting up to?
Speaker 3:Thank you, bill. They can follow me on LinkedIn my name is Liz Ryan L-I-Z-R-Y-A-N, and they can come to my site, humanworkplacecom, and follow me on TikTok and Twitter and wherever Facebook, and we do courses and workshops and stuff all the time and I would just love to connect with anybody who's interested in this topic of work as a human place.
Speaker 2:Wonderful. Well, there will be links, of course, listeners in the show notes, so you can check it all out there, but for today it just leaves me to say Liz Ryan, what an honor. Thank you so much for being my guest today.
Speaker 3:Not in the slightest, Bill. Thank you. I'm sorry I was so wordy, but it's fun to talk to you. I'd love to do it anytime. It would be good for you. And you know what. Congratulations on your amazing family news. Nothing trumps that.
Speaker 2:Thank you, and there we go, listeners, I've got it on record here. I'm going to be getting Liz back on the show before you know it, and just for the other listeners, as always, until next time, happy working.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show. If you enjoyed this episode, why not subscribe and listen to some of the hundreds of episodes published by HR Gazette and remember for what's new in the world of work? Subscribe to the show, follow us on social media and visit HRGazettecom.
