Employee Burnout: Resilience, Recovery and Transformation with Dr. Andy Garrett

In this episode of HRchat, guest host Bob Goodwin welcomes Dr. Andy Garrett, Founder and President of AG Thrive, to discuss resilience and burnout in the workplace.

Bob and Dr. Gartett explore the underlying causes of burnout, its consequences for individuals and organizations, and practical strategies to build resilience. Dr. Garrett emphasizes the importance of True North Values—understanding and aligning personal and organizational values to create meaningful work and foster resilience.

Key Topics Discussed:

• The widespread issue of burnout - with up to 60% of employees experiencing or approaching burnout.
• Causes of burnout, including lack of meaningful work, cumulative stress, and disengagement.
• Consequences of burnout, such as mental health challenges, decreased productivity, and organizational costs.
• The role of True North Values in combating burnout by aligning personal and workplace values.
• How defining core values enhances resilience and engagement, and reduces attrition.
• Practical strategies for resilience, such as stress mindset shifts, active recovery, and post-traumatic growth exercises.
• The metaphor of cows vs. buffaloes: facing challenges head-on to navigate stress more effectively.
• The holistic benefits of resilience strategies in both personal and professional life.

Key Quotes:

• “When employees feel connected to their company’s culture and values, engagement increases by nearly 400%.”
• “True North Values provide clarity, purpose, and confidence, helping individuals and organizations navigate challenges effectively.”
• “Resilience is not about suffering more; it’s about recovering and thriving in the face of adversity.”

Chapters

• 0:03 Understanding Burnout in the Workplace
• 7:23 Enhancing Workplace Well-Being Programs
• 16:31 Exploring Values and Integrity

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:03

Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's most downloaded and shared podcasts designed for HR pros, talent execs, tech enthusiasts and business leaders. For hundreds more episodes and what's new in the world of work, subscribe to the show, follow us on social media and visit hrgazettecom. Hi everybody, this is Bob Goodwin and welcome to anotherazettecom.

Speaker 2: 0:24

Hi everybody, this is Bob Goodwin, and welcome to another episode of HR Chat. I want to thank my good friend Bill Bannum, the editor of HR Gazette, for allowing me to guest host here for a few episodes, and with that I'm really pleased to introduce today's guest. He's a friend, he's a collaborator, but most importantly, he is a world-known thought leader on the topic of resilience and burnout. And so with that I'd like to welcome the founder and president of AG Thrive, Dr Andy Garrett, where he coaches high-performing teams and organizations to enhance and sustain their performance without burning out. So with that, Andy, welcome.

Speaker 3: 1:03

Yeah, great to be here, Bob, excited to have this chat with you.

Speaker 2: 1:07

No, awesome, Thank you. This HR chat with me so real quick. Where are you calling?

Speaker 3: 1:12

in from when are you based? So I am in lovely Newport Beach, California. Well, that sounds like it's like 75 degrees. It is a gorgeous day here.

Speaker 2: 1:21

I'm sorry you're breaking up. I didn't catch all that. I've been out to your place, it is beautiful. So our topic today, andy, at the risk of moving from silly to serious, is on burnout. And as we record this, the US has just completed the presidential election. All the other elections, there's everything that's going on in the world with wars and uncertainty, economy. People have real lives that they're dealing with. Oh yeah, they have their job. That is a source of stress People seem to be and the data seems to suggest that a lot of people are kind of upset generally and there's this sort of sense of disquiet, you know, leading all the way to burnout. I was wondering if you could just kind of get the table set for what some of the causes seem to be of burnout and then, thinking about it from both a personal but also professional perspective for organizations, what are some of the consequences of burnout?

Speaker 3: 2:26

Yeah, yeah, first off, just to give a context, I think, of the scope of this problem. I've seen the numbers, actually more recently, being anywhere from 50 to 60% of employees are either currently acknowledging being burnt out or on the cusp of burnout. That's a massive issue in the workplace, right, and we know, I think, the causes of that. Certainly there's some sense of doing work that isn't meaningful, right. This notion of efficacy or effectiveness when you feel like you're not being effective in the workplace, that that seems to really, it's kind of slowly soul crushing without the you know, try not to be too to exaggerate here, but when you know that you're just going, you're doing something in an obligatory fashion, you're just kind of going through the motions, you do that every day, it just starts to wear on you. I think there's also this notion of what we call allostatic load and it's this idea of it's a buildup of stress, right, and so ideally, when we start to recognize that stress is accumulating, it's building up. As you said, there's multiple factors. People have financial concerns, relational concerns, health concerns, geopolitical, I mean all these things, and then in the workplace they got these demands that they have to meet. The buildup of that starts to have kind of a compound, cumulative effect. Ideally you recognize that there's signals in your body, there's signals that you'll experience, and you take time to go and take a walk. You know, do exercise, meditate, whatever it is, and hopefully you work in a office or in a company that supports actions like that we call active recovery and so. But unfortunately for most people they don't stop. You know, those signs or signals come, but I got a deadline, I've got six other things I need to get done, and so there's this notion I just got to keep pushing through and I got to push, I got to keep going and unfortunately the effect of that is that allostatic load. Eventually you kind of bust through and that's where you end up having stress-related illness and injuries and ultimately burnout.

Speaker 3: 4:23

I do think that if you look at the kind of spectrum or the movement towards burnout, I think one of the first signs or symptoms that you will see in employees is disengagement. You'll start to notice that they are someone maybe that's very effective, very talented at what they do, but they're starting to lose that sense of enthusiasm. You can see, you can often see the stress, and so you notice that they're kind of checked out. That's, I think the first sign and if you don't intervene at that point, eventually it will lead to burnout. So the consequences for that are significant. I mean.

Speaker 3: 4:57

So there's the mental health consequences of someone that, like I said, can lead to stress related illness or injury. Certainly, diagnoses are going up, related to anxiety disorders, adjustment disorders, I mean there's all kinds of. We know the amount of money that's being spent right now on mental wellness programs, even in prescribing medications and doing different interventions, is massive. So there's certainly a recognition that this is a major problem. It's a major drain on the company, you know. I mean obviously we care about the individual that's experiencing burnout, but it affects the entire system when you start to see burnout, especially at that 50 to 60% rate.

Speaker 3: 5:40

I think I've seen burnout as something like a $200 billion a year problem for companies in the US, with a loss of performance and productivity. So it's a major problem. And of course these problems don't get isolated to the workspace, they get carried out into home and so you start to see then the effect that that has, maybe on a marriage, maybe on a family, certainly on their health, maybe on a family, certainly on their health. I mean, you see, with burnout people, you lose that to make really good decisions often requires a certain degree of willpower, right, the ability to not just do the easy thing or to do the immediate gratification. And when people are burnt out they don't have the bandwidth, and so you see this kind of slow degrade into them getting into worse and worse shape mentally, physically, socially. I think you certainly see a lot of isolation. You know when people need to reach out the most, when they're stressed out.

Speaker 3: 6:34

Unfortunately, oftentimes the thing is I just need to figure this out on my own, or you know a series of behaviors so can lead to depression. Certainly a feeling that there's a notion of what we call learned helplessness and that's that notion. When a notion of what we call learned helplessness, and that's that notion. When you feel like I'm trying things, I'm trying things, but because of, often, things I have no control over maybe a workplace, a manager that's really demanding and telling me I've got 10 more projects that I've got to make progress on that eventually you start to feel powerless and hopeless, and we know that that's really the precursor to depression. Start to feel powerless and hopeless, and we know that that's really the precursor to depression. And so all these things are related to burnout, which has a major impact again on the individual experiencing it and their well-being in life, but also on the well-being of the company.

Speaker 2: 7:17

Yeah, and such a great, great kind of overview that you just provided. I just want to make a couple more points because we have an HR specific audience here.

Speaker 2: 7:30

right, yeah, you know we talk about bringing your whole self to work and you know, kind of unfortunately, people do bring their whole selves to work, and you alluded to some of these. But you know whether it's aging parents you know my significant other relationship, my personal health, my financial situation, my kids, just like all these things that are kind of at home, personal things right, those do come to work with us, that's right. We talked about, kind of you know, the kind of environmental things you know of, whether it's you know politics or the economy, and all those sorts of things that have me you know of, whether it's you know politics or the economy, and all those sorts of things that have me, you know, wrapped around the axle and worried and fretful. And then there's the actual work itself that I'm responsible for. And let's say I work at a company that's been through a layoff and now I'm feeling you know what a couple other people were doing. Now that's landed on my desk, or now I've got management responsibilities that maybe I didn't or didn't sign up for, right.

Speaker 2: 8:30

So, like any and all of this, you talk about the cumulative effect, because I can't use the fancy words you use. But if the cumulative effect of all of that is real. And then from a you know we talked about engagement, but there's also attrition, right, I just can't do this anymore. There's lack of innovation because we lose our creativity because your point, we've lost bandwidth. Right, I'm already tapped out, I have nothing left. I think you know we both are friends and fans of Johnny Taylor at SHRM, where they're talking about stability and having civil conversations.

Speaker 2: 9:08

Maybe I'm just a little bit testier at work, maybe something sets me off a little bit more easily because I put up to work exhausted, right, and so now something kind of doesn't go the way that I thought it should go and like I have an out of pattern reaction Like that doesn't go the way that I thought it should go and like I have an out of pattern reaction like that doesn't sound like, andy, like so you know, this is, it's real and it's more than just kind of feel good, be nice.

Speaker 2: 9:36

I want to kind of start to lead us here, because I want to get to the solution in a second. What we're talking about isn't lost on our audience. I think that you do a great job of dimensionalizing this a bit more and helping folks understand that you know, this whole person kind of a thing is what's coming to your office and it does have consequences. So HR people, they care about their folks. They're trying to put together benefits that address these things and maybe if you could kind of acknowledge, yes, we're doing some of that, things that look like X, y and Z, but then maybe what's working and what could be improved?

Speaker 3: 10:18

Yeah, well, there certainly seems to be a recognition of companies the need to invest in wellness programs. So I think it's an obvious issue at this point and and I believe it's in 2026 that they're projected to spend 96 billion dollars on various wellness programs, and so I certainly want to applaud, right, this kind of increased, uh, investment. Yes, unfortunately, what we're seeing as the money's going up and the investment's increasing, we're not necessarily seeing a correlation in that with the well-being. We're not seeing the well-being and the culture of companies, the issues of burnout, disengagement, the absenteeism, all these things that are a byproduct of a declining mental health or well-being in a company or within individuals. We're not seeing that go up in correlation. In fact, in some regards, the problem is getting even slightly worse.

Speaker 3: 11:12

And so we're looking at some of the interventions, and while there are, I think, some wonderful apps out there I'm aware of some there are programs like EAPs, things that I think are well intentioned, but if you look at the actual engagement rates on these interventions, they're extremely low, and I'm hearing this with some of the companies that I'm working with, engaging with.

Speaker 3: 11:33

You know that paid a lot of money to get these great apps, but when they look at the actual, you know amount of times that employees are using it. Uh, the numbers are extremely low. I think the problem with some of those interventions also is that the engagement is focusing on the individual but it's not really addressing the culture of the company, right, it's not necessarily even addressing leadership or managers. I think we've both heard the statistic that the manager that someone works for can have a bigger impact or the same impact on someone's quality of life that they manage as the person's spouse. That's a that's a massive impact, right, when I've heard that and I've worked with people that nod their head, I'll attest to what you just said.

Speaker 3: 12:19

Yeah, yeah. And so if we're not going in and we're not equipping leaders and managers to be, you know, ideally with resilient strategies or you know we talk a lot about true north so that they're able to really know what brings out their very best to do, work in a way that's connected to their core values, that feels purposeful, you know, that's guided by their character strengths and helps to bring out, you know, their very best work, helps to bring out their very best work, suddenly then, that leader and especially when they have the resilient strategies, leadership strategies they are better equipped to deal with adversity. So when tough times come, they're not just responding by yelling or taking it out or giving the example or lead that, hey, we're not in good shape. Everybody else should probably fend for themselves right now. Instead, when someone's able to really anchor back to their true north focus on their resilient strategies, it's amazing how the rest of the team also starts to kind of feel, hey, we've got this.

Speaker 3: 13:21

I think of it like a quarterback in the two-minute drill, where the game's on the line and the pressure's at the highest. Those quarterbacks that are able to at the highest, those quarterbacks that are able to get the cool, calm, collected and really get the rest of the team also to focus. Those are the ones that win the Super Bowl titles. That's what we want to equip people to do is to know how, when the pressure gets highest, that they're able to use strategies and tools that programs have hopefully given them to be able to lead their team into more resilient responses.

Speaker 2: 13:49

Okay, let's slow down for a second. So, you're using a couple of terms that I want to make sure that people understand. So True North and even values are? I mean just like, in the simplest language and maybe with some examples what does that mean?

Speaker 3: 14:06

Yeah, yeah, so we know. Interesting, there's a and I'll make sure this connects to what I just said but Gallup Poll just sent out it was research looking at when employees felt connected to the culture of their company. Right, culture is really like another word kind of the identity of the company. You know, it's not just the reputation, it's not the commercials you see on tv, it's what you know, that actually you experience in the company. You know what's, what's the character? Uh, what values do they actually represent? Not the ones that sit on the walls, you know, but how does leader actually the decisions they make, what they actually prioritize? And so when people felt connected to that, uh, it increased engagement by nearly 400. It had, uh, decreased, decreased the probability of burnout by almost 70% and decreased their likelihood of looking for new jobs by 42%. That's a massive impact and a lot of that is related to when you've got a culture of a company that clearly has a strong sense of culture and identity, ideally anchored to their core values.

Speaker 3: 15:08

So core values just represent what is most important to you, it's the things that you stand for, the things you most identify with, and when you feel connected to them as an individual, the research shows, you feel like you can overcome just about anything right. That ability, when stress comes and things get chaotic, to really being able to bring order to chaos, because you say, well, what really matters here? And if you're able to focus in well, integrity, that's what really matters to me, or whatever those core values might be. When you start heading in that direction, again what we call true north, it's amazing how it gives clarity, it gives the ability to make higher level decisions, decisions because you know what direction to head in. It gives you the basis to act with conviction and confidence, you know, and to have consistency and cohesiveness in how you act. And so those core values really, to me, are a complete game changer when you help the individuals to define what those are for them in the workplace and how that relates to the work they do.

Speaker 3: 16:04

Define what those are for them in the workplace and how that relates to the work they do and that also makes the work much more meaningful. They start to feel connected to that work in a different way. And when you have a clear understanding of what the values of the workplace are and ideally there's alignment between the two, when you just create that alone between the employee and the workplace, that has a massive mitigating factor against burnout that has a massive mitigating factor against burnout.

Speaker 2: 16:31

Okay, so I want to go super, super slow, because you and I talk about this stuff regularly and these could potentially be very new concepts for some listeners. When you say integrity, nobody's not for integrity, I mean right, I mean nobody admit to themselves I'm not for integrity. Somehow I've rationalized it. Whatever my behavior is, I'm still acting with integrity, right? So so what are examples? And maybe I'll give a couple that might not even be right, but you know, you might value relationships, I might value results. Okay, those are equally valid things to to value, right, but they're different. Okay, those are equally valid things to to value, right, but they're different, right, I might value, you know, let's get done what we can do today.

Speaker 2: 17:15

That might be viewed as a short-term mentality and you might be like, no, like, we need to be building for the longer term. Like you know, we always need to kind of have, you know, the, the, the future in focus here, and so, or I'm really about family, okay, who's not for family? But that can mean different things. So family could be for me, I want to spend as much time with my children as possible, with my significant other as possible. For somebody else who, equally loud and proud, says I'm a family value person. But for me that means I provide for my family. You know, I want to make sure that they're never resource, you know, in a resource poverty kind of a way that they never feel need and so the thing I can do is make more money, create more assets so that they're always quote safe Right.

Speaker 2: 18:04

Very different approaches to life, but both could in theory say I'm a very family oriented person, so how would you run with that?

Speaker 3: 18:14

Yeah, it's a great question and part of what we see, because companies often spend a lot of time and a lot of money getting consultants to define their core value, their mission statement, their vision and oftentimes the individuals that work for them. You know their core values don't exactly line up, and so that ability to create that alignment, that doesn't just happen automatically, it doesn't happen organically. It often requires kind of a strategy, an intentional process or framework. And so you know what we walk people through is help them define their individual core values, but to make sure that when you use you know integrity or family, whatever it is, that you're able to actually really define what that specifically means to you, why it's important. And then, I think one of the key parts how does that relate to the work you do? And it's possible in that that you say it doesn't.

Speaker 3: 19:02

I mean it is possible, going through that process, that someone realizes this is really a poor fit for me, what you do with that. I know we've had some CEOs that we've worked with that said we'd really love for employees to self-select that if it's not a good fit, because we want to see them thrive right and so that they have the ability and we can support them. You know, maybe in finding someplace or a different role, even in the workplace, that really is a better fit. But if you are working in a place that's not a good fit for your values, the likelihood of burnout goes up exponentially, right, I mean, there's the likelihood that you're just you're doing work and you might be really good at it, but you don't find it meaningful and you don't find it fulfilling. That that will start to slowly eat away at you. So I think the significance of making this connection to the alignment is massive. I think that's where you really can address the disengagement issue, which, if you can get an employee that's highly engaged, I think you're much less likely to see them burn out and then you're less likely to see a lot of unnecessary turnover.

Speaker 3: 20:05

But the ability to define what those values are we've had a lot of people that have gone through. We usually work initially with the leadership teams, but in going through our core values exercise, one of the feedback we've often heard is it's never dawned on me what's important to my team. I am trying to get them motivated based off what's important to me, and so a lot of times they'll even take that exercise and they'll go bring it to their team and in doing that, suddenly they have a language now to be able to understand. You know what's important to Bob and Susie and you know when you can speak someone's values language. It's honestly one of the most intimate and authentic things that you can do as far as you know, creating trust and really seeing and validating someone. It's incredibly powerful.

Speaker 2: 20:48

I think where you're getting to, at least as I'm listening to you it's the difference between speaking to someone as a human being and as a work producing unit.

Speaker 3: 20:57

Well said, yeah, yes. Because you're speaking to their heart and what they're saying is genuinely important. One thing I want to ask you can values be ethically neutral?

Speaker 2: 21:12

What I mean by that?

Speaker 2: 21:13

I mean it's not a trick question, it's a genuine question which is again, for example, like with the family example, which I think is a very good and real example, potential one is the person wants to be at every t-ball game, soccer game, parent teacher conference dinner, like all that's super important to me, versus somebody else who's like I'm willing to travel a lot because you know it allows me to generate the kind of income and build wealth that allows me to know that I can pay for college for my kids, that, god forbid, if something happens to me, they're all going to be okay, which are, like again, really admirable qualities, absolutely so. Is it possible that values are, in one sense, ethically neutral? There's not a good and a bad, it's just what's true for you.

Speaker 3: 22:06

Yes, I would say where the ethics part. What motivates it can sometimes determine whether it's extrinsically motivated or intrinsically motivated. That's a whole other discussion. What I found in bringing up that example.

Speaker 3: 22:20

I was talking with someone last year who is a world-renowned, sought-after speaker and spends a lot of the time on the road. He's got a family. He's got a wife and kids. So I was curious how do you do that and does this cause issues? He said that he had to sit down with his wife and really say you know, how many days a week do you need me at home and what is okay. But it was this collaborative process where his wife's voice and, you know, her input mattered and he took that into account and then created his schedule based off of what she needed from him. So the fact that they were able to do it she had autonomy, he had autonomy.

Speaker 3: 22:54

So I think, yeah, there's so many different ways to live out these values that they really can be ethically neutral. I think just that having a very authentic, intentional conversation, whether that's around family or whatever we talk a lot about, with work-life balance instead, work-life integration that's just about idea of being very intentional in how you live your life and so that, ideally, if physical health is really important to you, that part of the way that you create your work schedule is allowing for space and time to work out. So you're creating a very well orchestrated schedule that takes into account all the things that are important and meaningful to you.

Speaker 2: 23:36

Okay, so we have about eight minutes and what I was hoping that we could do is using True North values as a foundation. Can you kind of take us up a level to how that starts to create resilient strategies, which is something that you addressed, to help us maybe do more than cope with the inevitable change, upsetness, all the things that get us kind of fired up and feeling stress? Can you start to move us into resilience a little bit, andy?

Speaker 3: 24:13

Absolutely. You know, really, our program's a two-tiered program, so it starts with the true north, right? We kind of covered really getting into and going deep into understanding what brings out your values, your purpose, your mission. Part of the reason why I want to talk about that and the way that leads to resilience is that when you feel connected to purpose, when you feel connected to your values, that naturally makes you a more resilient person, right? We know there's an abundance of research that supports this. Also, when you're being resilient I don't want it to just be being resilient If you're in a toxic work culture and we just want to increase your resilience the idea is not just to be able to suffer more right, it's to be resilient towards something better, right?

Speaker 3: 24:57

Ideally, the resilience helps you to rebound from a difficult day, a failure, a setback, a challenge, and that you're able to then course correct, be resilient back into a higher state. If you think about someone who we both have a great appreciation for, viktor Frankl he was able to access his higher self in one of the worst possible environments he was in a Nazi concentration camp and so that ability to continue to access well, he didn't use the term his true north, but that's what kept pulling him up out of this terrible environment, into this resilient response was because he was able to access his higher self, regardless of what happened to him, and we know that that brings out a resilience that's really extraordinary. And so, in addition to that, then we also teach proven resilient strategies. So everything from how to increase a biology of resilience, so it's doing active recovery exercises, you know, knowing how to match the breathing exercise to the specific type of stress that you're experiencing. You know knowing how to have a stress mindset where you're able to actually transform stress into a source of motivation and meaning, like that's a game changer alone. Right, the stress can actually be a source of motivation and meaning, like that's a game changer alone. Right, the stress can actually be a source of motivation and health. The ability to have a growth mindset you know we do an exercise called it's called a benefit finding exercise, but effectively, you know it's what turned.

Speaker 3: 26:21

Most people know about PTSD. Very few people know about post-traumatic growth. Why more people don't understand that trauma and difficulties can be a source of significant meaning and growth and purpose. That's something we try and educate and there's a specific pathway that you can apply right when the meaning you attach to difficulties suddenly creates a trajectory for those setbacks to make you stronger, better, wiser. And so when we apply these proven strategies and then we're also able to anchor them to a person's core values, something that's so significant and important to them it just amplifies the effect of the resilient strategies, and so it's the most powerful. In the 20 years of having done this work, worked in private practice, worked with companies and executives it's the most powerful combination, when you put these two together, that I've ever witnessed or observed.

Speaker 2: 27:17

So this is coming from a clinical psychologist. So what intrigues me at least about resilience? It's really a life skill. This isn't just an at work skill. This is a life skill because the rate of change the magnitude of change.

Speaker 2: 27:41

The unpredictability of change is today's the slowest day of the rest of our lives, and so it's just going to keep happening. And so either you kind of live in this sort of fear of, like what's around the corner, what's the next thing that's going to happen, or it's like I'm getting stronger. I'm getting stronger, and what used to freak me out? It's like okay, like not a big deal, I can deal with that. I've dealt with it before. I have a strategy, as you say, like I know what to do. Let's take this down into bite-sized pieces. Let's kind of figure is anybody going to die or not? Die no death? Okay, good, right. And so be able to just sort of walk yourself through. But a big piece of this is retraining your mind to help you slow down enough to not just be overwhelmed. Could you talk about that for a minute?

Speaker 3: 28:31

Yeah, yeah, I was going to say a term or kind of a metaphor that we use is the difference between how cows and buffaloes respond to incoming storms, and so I figured we'd use this illustration. So, for those that may not have heard this story, apparently, when cows sense a storm's coming, their natural inclination is to start to run away from the storm, because they're not the fleetest of hoof, you know. The storm catches up to them and in their their desire to avoid, they end up spending the maximum amount of time in the storm. Buffaloes, on the other hand, uh, first they come together as a herd right, protect the weak, the vulnerable, the, and they know their strength in numbers and then they start heading directly into the storm and because they do that, while they experience more immediate discomfort, they also get through the storm in the most efficient way possible and spend the maximum amount of time in the good weather. That's really and people often will hear this they get all excited and riled up. I'm gonna be a buffalo, but the key is knowing what makes you a Buffalo, right, being able to really give language, to have a specific set of strategies. That's true to who you are. That's all, because if you just start running into storms and you aren't really aware of what makes you resilient, then it's easy to become a bull in a China shop, right, and you're actually adding to the chaos.

Speaker 3: 29:45

But we've seen this over and over. Where you know employees, we had one employee, a manager, who really had worked with this company for 20 years, loved working there, but he was really conflict avoided and he had a really difficult employee and he had issues that he wasn't dealing with. Those started to fester and it created an environment as workplace that became pretty toxic and so he was ready to quit. He'd worked his way for 20 years to this dream spot of a job. He was well equipped for it. But fortunately the owner of this company said we've invested in True North Radical Resilience. We at least just hang on and go through it and see if that helps Buffalo.

Speaker 3: 30:29

Sure enough, about two months after the training, the owner gets a response that that employee created something that created a bunch of chaos for everyone. He was expecting to get a phone call, a resignation call. This guy calls him up. He says do I need to be ready to replace you? He says absolutely not, I'm a Buffalo, I just didn't know it. And so he handled it. He had to let the employee go, but he didn't know. It was consistent with his values. He felt really good about how he handled it. He let everybody else know there that he was no longer going to let those types of situations fester that he was going to lean into. He was no longer avoidant. That store is hitting record sales and profits. It's the top store within the company has addressed problems with his health. He lost like 25 pounds with his wife. You know they actually have made through.

Speaker 3: 31:13

It's really the holistic sense, because the strategies, work period, you know they work at home the same as they do in the workplace, and so it's a really neat thing. I think that's what you see when people are equipped that they spend more time in that true north space, operating, you know, in things that are really meaningful, feeling very purpose-driven, uh, operating at their highest potential and and something really magical happens. You know, burnout can become very contagious, but so can someone who's operating in that space. That's purpose-driven, resilient. It has this incredible effect on everybody around, and so we want to see more people you, you know as buffalos, maximizing the amount of time that they're growing, creating and thriving.

Speaker 2: 31:54

Awesome Andy. This has been amazing. Thank you so much. If people want to learn more about True North and radical resilience, what's the best way for them to do that?

Speaker 3: 32:05

Yeah, you know, I think the best way right now would just be to send me an email. So that'd be DrAndy D-R-A-N-D-Y at ag-thrivecom.

Speaker 2: 32:15

Okay, so DrAndy at ag-thrivecom Awesome Cool.

Speaker 3: 32:21

Yes, awesome, andy, thank you so much and listeners.

Speaker 2: 32:23

Thank you guys so much for taking a few minutes out. I hope you're learning, get a little bit closer to how to become more of the buffalo that's in you, and, andy, I appreciate all the wisdom that you share with us, so thank you.

Speaker 3: 32:35

Yeah, this was, as always, super fun, bob. I always love having this conversation with you, thank you.

Speaker 4: 32:40

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