HRchat Podcast
Listen to the HRchat Podcast by HR Gazette to get insights and tips from HR leaders, influencers and tech experts. Topics covered include HR Tech, HR, AI, Leadership, Talent, Recruitment, Employee Engagement, Recognition, Wellness, DEI, and Company Culture.
Hosted by Bill Banham, Bob Goodwin, Pauline James, and other HR enthusiasts, the HRchat show publishes interviews with influencers, leaders, analysts, and those in the HR trenches 2-4 times each week.
The show is approaching 1000 episodes and past guests are from organizations including ADP, SAP, Ceridian, IBM, UPS, Deloitte Consulting LLP, Simon Sinek Inc, NASA, Gartner, SHRM, Government of Canada, Hacking HR, McLean & Company, UPS, Microsoft, Shopify, DisruptHR, McKinsey and Co, Virgin Pulse, Salesforce, Make-A-Wish Foundation, and Coca-Cola Beverages Company.
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Podcast Music Credit"Funky One"Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
HRchat Podcast
AI and Leadership: Adapting to Change and Driving Innovation with Andrea Di Vetta, ARU
Ever wondered how AI is reshaping leadership in today's evolving workplace? Join us as we sit down with Andrea Di Vetta, a passionate lecturer in business and HRM at Anglia Ruskin University and past Disrupt Cambridge speaker.
Listen as Andrea offers an insider's perspective on the fusion of AI, leadership, and organizational change. He delves into the pressing challenges SMEs encounter with AI adoption and underscores the importance of aligning technology with organizational priorities. He also reflects on his impactful presentation at Disrupt Cambridge, which exemplified the power of concise and punchy communication.
This conversation Andrea has with Bill Banham is an opportunity to understand how HR leaders can strategically leverage AI while maintaining the human touch in their organizations.
As we look towards the future, we explore how leadership education is adapting to address critical global issues like digital transformation, climate awareness, and equity, diversity, and inclusion. Andrea shares how future leaders can harness AI and automation while safeguarding human creativity and empathy.
We also touch on upcoming events, including a festive HR meetup in Cambridge on December 5th. With an eye on new research opportunities at ARU, this episode is a reminder of the importance of staying connected and informed, paving the way for ongoing collaboration in a world that demands visionary leadership.
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Speaker 2:Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show. Hello listeners, this is your host today, bill Bannam, and in this episode we're going to discuss AI, leadership and change. My guest today is Andrea De Vetta, lecturer in business and HRM over at Anglia Ruskin University. Andrea heads up ARU's Leadership and Change module. Plus, he's a past Disrupt Cambridge speaker. Andrea, my friend, how are you? Thank you for joining me.
Speaker 3:Hello Bill, it's my pleasure to join you today. It's lovely to talk to you. We haven't caught up for a while. We know each other quite well. We've seen each other at Disrupt HR and we've been in so many HR conversations, so it's a pleasure for me to be here today and talk to you.
Speaker 2:Listeners. I like Andrea. He's a pretty cool dude, you know, and you're going to find this out now as we chat through in this episode. Andrea, why don't you start, please, by introducing yourself to our listeners, telling them a bit about your academic and career background, and also talk to them a bit about Anglia Ruskin University?
Speaker 3:Sure, so well. As you rightly said, bill, I'm a lecturer in business and HRM at Anglia Ruskin University. Anglia Ruskin University has got different campuses and I mainly work in Cambridge and Chelmsford. Indeed, as you say, I lead the module on leadership and change, and I have got sessions both in Cambridge and Chelmsford. Although I'm Cambridge based, I work in the Faculty of Business and Law within the School of Management, and I've been at AIU for the past three years now. So I started as an associate lecturer while I was working for a consultancy on digital transformation and change, and now I get the pleasure to apply all of my knowledge and all of my academic knowledge to teach students, and I just love it.
Speaker 2:Thanks for listening to this episode of the HR Chat Podcast. If you enjoy the audio content we produce, you'll love our articles on the HR Gazette. Learn more at hrgazettecom. And now back to the show. Very good, and by the way, that comes through in certainly in the talks I've seen you do that natural enthusiasm for what you do, so kudos to you for that. So I saw you speak at Disrupt Cambridge earlier this year and your topic was AI adoption. Before jumping on this call with you today, I was re-watching your five-minute talk there. Very, very good, Well done. Why don't you take a couple of minutes now and talk to me about that particular session what were some of the hoped-for learning outcomes from it, and also take some time to share your thoughts on that unique format five minutes, 20 slides, 15 seconds per slide, because it ain't easy, is it?
Speaker 3:Oh, I see, remembering nowadays, bill, it was the first time. So it's such a so innovative, such an innovative format. I enjoyed it. I loved it really.
Speaker 3:So I start from the second question, bill, if you don't mind. I just found it um a bit challenging at the beginning to prepare for it. Um, I'm an academic, so I like to talk a lot, right, don't I? And, uh, having 30 seconds per slide was a was a bit of a challenge. Plus, I was a consultant, um as well. So obviously I like the talking. I can, can't deny that.
Speaker 3:But in terms of the format, I think it is very good to sort of convey that short, sharp message to the audience. You get to hear from different experts at the same time, in the same session, on the same topic. So, yeah, I encourage everybody to get involved in it. So do reach out to Bill or myself, according to the connections, if you'd like to get involved. It's so fun. At the end of the day, I think it all comes down to that. So thank you very much, Bill, for the opportunity there.
Speaker 3:And when it comes to my talk, just following up on what I said earlier, I talked about AI from an adoption perspective, having worked for two years in consultancy.
Speaker 3:I just see many organizations, especially SMEs, struggling with adoption adoption, so I just thought I would. I would talk through my experience and just trying to raise you know those, you know those instances where organizations actually fail in adopting AI. And, yes, we know that AI is a big topic nowadays. I see many IT leaders getting excited about the technology and getting excited about AI, but sometimes I always like to sort of remind people that the biggest imperative is to try and understand what is the problem that they're trying to solve.
Speaker 3:Many people do get excited about the technology without understanding how they can actually implement it within their organisation. So, as you say, 30 seconds in 30 seconds plays the lie that just try to talk about my learning and the biggest mistakes in the adoption. And obviously that comes down to strategy, that comes down to leadership, that comes down to understanding the technology itself or often having the right resources and capabilities, especially when it comes to smes. Um so, bill, we've got that online, don't we? So please do go and check the recording and do connect with myself and Bill if you'd like to discuss this further.
Speaker 2:We certainly do so. I think it's disrupthrco forward slash city, forward slash Cambridge, and then you can find Andrea's talk there. So please do do that, listeners. You were just mentioning there about having a handle on AI within business. Hey, listen, you and I can both use a calculator, but we don't have to know our times tables. Okay, and that's a way that AI has been described to me several times and I've seen that described at various different events. How important is it that senior leaders of departments, maybe at the C-suite as well, have got a good handle of capabilities of AI or technology? Am I missing the point? Is it actually that it's there, it's designed and it's ready just to augment what you're doing in a business? How important is it, for example, for HR managers who are concerned about biases within large language models, within generative technologies, to have a deeper learning, a deeper understanding of AI? Or should we assume that AI is doing what it's supposed to be doing?
Speaker 3:We should really understand it well because otherwise, you know, what I talked about at the conference is that we just fail in implementations. As easy as that is that we just fail in the implementations as easy as that. And we know that the consequences are, you know, are bigger than the problem sometimes. So, you know, adopting it and implementing it across the organisation without really understanding the technology or understanding how to do it is one of the biggest mistakes you mentioned there. You know's a big discussion around ethics Nowadays.
Speaker 3:Sometimes, when it comes to leaders adopting it, we don't really know what values, what frameworks, what elements that the AI uses to produce text, to produce the resources that we're asking the tool to produce for us.
Speaker 3:So I totally agree with you in answering your questions yes, we need to understand it well. We need proper training within organizations to really understand how to how to use it. Um, because, yes, I agree, right, it always comes down to efficiency and we think that, um, you know, it makes our work, our life easier, uh, and better, uh, we will be, we become more efficient, and you know we can, uh, um, yeah, work on multiple tasks at the same times, but, um, I always argue that by saying, okay, but are you sure that your outputs then are the same? Okay, so is that what you were looking for? Um, so there's no one answer. It's not one size fits all. It really depends on the organization and the industry and and also the problem that you're trying to solve and your organization's objectives. So, yes, of course it's a great opportunity, but we've got to make sure that we use it in the right way.
Speaker 4:This episode of the HR Chat Podcast is supported by Nebula Academy, a technology industry-focused workforce accelerator that offers learning programs to prepare individuals for successful careers. Our approach is centered around cognitive neuroscience research, combining the latest research and modern learning methods to create informative and psychologically safe learning experiences. Our programs enable individuals to achieve career readiness and immediate impact in their chosen field. Moreover, we help businesses create positive learning experiences their chosen field. Moreover, we help businesses create positive learning experiences, increase productivity, enhance team performance and build upskilling resources to meet the needs of today's modern workplace. Learn more at nebulaacademycom. Thanks, and now back to the HR chat show.
Speaker 2:Okay, so follow up to my follow up. How important, then, are regulatory bodies and auditing to the AI tools that we use, so that those folks who are less technical but still are being encouraged to use generative technology within their business can at least feel some confidence that some of those inherent biases that they're worried about, perhaps, are being checked somewhere along the line?
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, that's so important, right, as you say, not all the organisations and not all leaders have the opportunity to know the technology very well, to get the right training. So having a regulatory framework, having some more consistency there, like consistent framework across industries and across organisations, will definitely help. Right, at least we will know what's lawful and what's ethical right, because it always comes down to that grey area where, well, we've got to take decisions but we don't know what's the right one, or we don't know what to do, and there's always going to be a grey area, you know, between ethics and the law. But if we can try and yeah, and have some more consistent frameworks, then surely we'll make our life easier and perhaps we could see more successful implementations I feel like that's coming.
Speaker 2:I mean, you look at regulations in california, new york, for example, um. But at the moment, I also feel like we're kind of in the wild west when it comes to all of these different technologies which are popping up all over the place. They feel like they've got free range to an extent and we don't quite know, we quite don't quite understand the technologies behind them, the data sets and all the rest of it. Anyway, this is not an interview with me, it's an interview with you, so let's continue through, sir. Uh, so today we are focused mainly on leadership and change, and you are teaching a module at ARU on exactly that. Before we get into the details of that module, andrea, um, what's something that's changed for you, either in your personal life or your professional life, in the last year?
Speaker 3:I think the the biggest change has been um working full-time in academia.
Speaker 3:As I said, I was um, working for a consultancy um as well before and as an associate lecturer at Angharask asking university and um, yeah, last year I, yeah, I changed completely the focus on uh, you know, took a different steer to um, you know, to my career path and um, and I'm full time in um in academia now. So I've got the opportunity to make a bigger impact in the education sector, in the modules that I teach and, obviously, the content and thinking about long term. How does that fit within education and how does that fit within the latest trends? We talked about AI. How does that fit within the future? The, the future, the, the, you know, the future of of work and, um, yeah, the most current trends. So I got an opportunity to to review and, yeah, reshape the module, as you mentioned, leadership and change, and I'm very looking forward to, you know, delivering for the first time in um trimester two, so starting from january 2025 for me, I think the two biggest changes over the past year are we had baby number two.
Speaker 2:That was a big one. And also, I mean, I wear hats most of the times. I don't mind, but my hairline, my hairline is changing quite a lot at the moment, uh, as I, as I uh roll into my 40s, um, which makes me sad, but there we go. Okay, let's continue through then. Can you now share some of the topics covered in the module that we've mentioned so far, and why are they critical for today's leaders?
Speaker 3:I think I'll start from the fact that we live in a rapidly changing world, don't we? And when I think about leadership, I think about those leaders that are faced with many grand challenges that really go beyond traditional business concerns and have many far reaching implications for the organisation and the society, implement this in our modules and focusing on three core challenges digital transformation, climate change and EDI. And just because these challenges are, you know, the more growing and changing trends and really at the forefront of leadership, because they, you know, let's be honest they shape the future of our world, of our society and, therefore, of organizations, and I think they really define those kind of leaders that the world needs, because, it all comes down to that, we try and prepare our students for the world of work. So, digital transformation, in terms of embracing AI, as we've just discussed, automation, data-driven decision-making, while also thinking about the risks of that digital disruption, with the rise of Industry 5.0, we're seeing a shift towards keeping humans at the centre of that technological advancement, emphasising collaboration between humans and machines to enhance productivity, while realising that we need to preserve human creativity and empathy. So this is very crucial for leaders, because we talked about adoption before and failing to understand and adapt.
Speaker 3:That will mean falling behind in an increasingly competitive landscape where human-centered leadership and innovation really becomes a differentiator within an organization. And then the climate crisis and you know I want to stress climate crisis rather than climate change. We've, you know, we're hearing a lot, especially, you know, in the past couple of weeks, about COP and what's going on there. The bottom line is that the world demands those leaders that think long-term and beyond quarterly profits, and those that take responsibility for the environmental impact of their organization. And obviously, leadership in sustainability is about driving innovation, innovation that aligns with the environmental goals, with sustainable development goals, ensuring the future viability of the business while at the same time contributing positively to the society. So we talk about the concept of steward leadership and it's central here with a focus of balancing growth and ethical responsibilities.
Speaker 3:Steward- leaders are those that create value by integrating the needs of the society, of the stakeholders, the future generations and the environment. So we really want our students here to understand that it's more than skills, right, it is a matter of mindset. Ok, so we want to take their own leadership to the next level. So they must understand that if we don't address it today, then we'll destroy our planet and the humanity within it. So, whilst in the past, I'm sure you know, this wasn't even mentioned in leadership and change modules and we were only focusing on pursuing self-interest, you know well-being, law-abiding citizens, nowadays not doing any harm is just not good enough. We must proactively do good, and so, as partner leaders, all of our students must understand that and embrace the ideas of student leadership. And, as I mentioned, the third pillar will be EDI and that's, you know, a bit interrelated, interconnected to sustainability, because leaders must foster that.
Speaker 3:You know those diverse and inclusive workplaces that reflect the broader society that we're living into and, you know, with all that complexity that comes within it. And we understand that diversity nowadays just goes beyond cultural and ethnic backgrounds days, just goes beyond cultural and ethnic backgrounds. It includes gender, age, neurodiversity, diversity of thoughts and organizations that really embrace these various elements of diversity perform better. Okay, there's research shows that they perform better, they're more innovative, they work more effectively and they benefit from gaining a richer range of perspective from the whole teams. So that's very important to the module. We want our students to understand that leaders must cultivate an environment where everybody feels valued and everybody's unique contributions are recognised and celebrated. And it's not easy, right? The ability to navigate all these challenges will ultimately determine whether a leader can guide their organisations towards sustained success in an uncertain and complex world, and addressing these challenges is really no longer an option. Okay, it's no longer a nice to have, it's just a necessity for and for the leaders of tomorrow.
Speaker 2:I am now going to challenge you to answer in 60 seconds or less. How do you develop the module to prepare students to tackle some of those challenges that you just mentioned?
Speaker 3:there's a few things there and I'll try to put in, say, in 60 seconds bill. Um, I think incorporating practical elements is key, right? I've talked about um, leadership and change. There's a lot of theory behind it and in order to really understand these challenges and how to overcome them, um, we, you know, we we've designed some student-led sessions, some real-world leadership challenges and activities that students can engage with to put into practice what they learn.
Speaker 3:We also place a great emphasis on self-reflection, because these are vital leadership skills, and that's integrated into the module assessment through reflective portfolio assignments. So that way, rather than just being a one single large essay or report, we just break it down into more manageable reflective pieces that students can work on week by week. We've also designed the module to ensure an inclusive, engaging, interactive environment that enhances both academic development and employability at the same time. So we've included some interactive talking digital, as we did before, some digital tools that will definitely help provide some real-time insights to the students and really see how their learning is going, and I guess that way there will be more accessible, more immersive and more engaging for all the students.
Speaker 2:Lovely answer, but it was not in under 60 seconds, andrea, so I'm going to challenge you again, okay, because I like to do that sometimes, because I'm me. Ok, so, in under 60 seconds. How do you envisage the future of leadership, education evolving?
Speaker 3:That's really hard in 60 seconds, bill. Looking at the future, I think leadership education will definitely become more interdisciplinary and globally connected. You know we talked about technology, we talked about some pressing grand challenges. We talked about climate change, inclusivity, digital transformation. So I really think it's fundamental to reshape the leadership landscape and that's what we're trying to to involve and, yeah, and then implementing the module and, however, you know, we know that one of the biggest challenges we face in leadership is in SMEs adoption. So we talk about that within, within our activities.
Speaker 3:We've seen so many companies failing and that really raises an important question, right? So what's the best way to teach our students and how? You know, how can we train them? How can you teach them to be ready when they go and work? Um, so we've got at mba level. Obviously, we've got leadership and change, but there's um. You know that there's an opportunity for a help to grow program that we offer as well. Um, so I think you know embedding both academic and practical workshops. You know we we can equip our students as best as we can.
Speaker 2:was the 60 seconds 61 I think it might have been about actually yeah, good work on that one. All right, okay, that's, that's a reprieve. Well done, okay. Uh, you and I, we are hanging out with uh francisco and and the aru gang at a groovy festive meetup on de December 5th, which is a couple of weeks as we record this episode today. Uh, it's going to be in Cambridge, of course, just around the corner from ARU, at the tram depot. I'm looking forward to seeing you again in person. Um, I might even buy the first round. What about that? Um, what else is coming up for you apart from that cool meetup? What else is coming up for you in the next year and any events that you're speaking at or attending or any other activities that you want to highlight?
Speaker 3:yeah, bill, you've just reminded me that, um, I need to get my christmas jumper, but, uh, that's uh, that's a side note, but, um, what's coming up? Um, so I'm uh, presenting at a conference, talking about ai, um, in lisbon, so I'm really looking forward to that, especially to warmer weather and talking about that zero degrees now in Cambridge and so yeah, I will be presenting a conference.
Speaker 3:We're looking forward to meet, you know, other academics and experts in the industry. I'm also looking forward to challenge myself. You have a short shot, 30 seconds per slide the Disrupt HR Bill. So we'll catch up on that and please do stay connected both on the website and with myself on LinkedIn. And I guess, yeah, try to also from January. In the new year will be quite busy, um with teaching. We've got um a few events coming up, um at aru, uh. So I guess, yeah, research, um, there will be a lot of research coming out of that and surely I'm looking forward to to present all this at disrupt h HR and the conference in Lisbon.
Speaker 2:Okay, thank you and watch this space Disrupt. Cambridge co-organiser James Hems is busy negotiating with Franziska and the team right now about doing a whole bunch more in 2025 with ARU. So that's terribly exciting, but we can't tell you too much. But, for those in the cambridge area, watch this space. You'll be welcome to join us. Just finally, for today, then, in terms of connecting with you, uh, what are the best ways to do that, andrea? Is that linkedin? Do you want to share your email address I bet you're super cool and all over instagram and tiktok and places. And, of course, if they want to learn more about uh aru, help your listeners do that of course?
Speaker 3:of course, it would be my pleasure. Um, well, surely, linkedin? You know, nowadays it's all about linkedin, isn't it? I don't even have any business cards anymore. You just go with q around with q codes, uh, but yes, linkedin, that's where I'm, um you know, mainly active on. Uh, I don't do tiktok bill, so that was the wrong guess. Um, I don't do TikTok Bill, so that was the wrong guess. I don't do any TikTok, but perhaps in the future we'll see I can do TikTok when I teach leadership and change next trimester. That's a good suggestion. No, I would say LinkedIn.
Speaker 3:My personal email, yeah, sure, is andreadivetta, at gmailcom. Quite easy, please do mind the spelling of my Italian name, which is not that common. It's not Andrea or it's not Andre, but it's Andrea. And so please do reach out. Right? You can find me on the EAU website, by all means. We're always looking forward to engage and connect with academics and industry experts. So if you're listening and you're an HR expert, which I'm sure you will be, then please do reach out. We're always happy to have guest speakers and arrange some activities and events here at ARU, so there are a lot of opportunities around the corner. So I'm looking forward to connect with you corner, um, so I'm looking forward to connect with you, bill. I'm looking forward to connect with you soon in december and catch up, um, and I'm going to get my christmas jumper soon I've got a couple of pretty bad dad christmas jumpers.
Speaker 2:So, uh, yeah, look out, look out for those. Uh, andrea, it's always a pleasure chatting to you, my friends. I appreciate your time today. Thank you very much for being my guest, thank you very much Bill. Thanks everybody and listeners as always. Until next time, happy working.
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