Shadow AI at Work with ChaVon Clarke-Joell

In this AI-focused HRchat episode, we hear from ChaVon (CJ) Clarke-Joell, Top 100 Brilliant Women in AI Ethics (2024), Global AI Ethics Advocate, Thought Leader, Innovator in Digital Wellness & Resilience and recent speaker at the MK AI Summit.

Organizations are grappling with employees bringing AI tools to work. Employees are secretly using ChatGPT and other AI tools, creating what is called 'Shadow AI.' Instead of fighting this trend, says CJ, HR pros and leaders should embrace it. 

CJ has created two organizations that tackle different sides of the same challenge - CKC Cares focuses on the human side of digital transformation, while The TLC Group addresses technical governance and cybersecurity. Why is bridging these two worlds so critical right now?

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:03

Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's most downloaded and shared podcasts designed for HR pros, talent execs, tech enthusiasts and business leaders. For hundreds more episodes and what's new in the world of work, subscribe to the show, follow us on social media and visit hrgazettecom and visit.

Speaker 2: 0:22

HRGazettecom. Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show. Hello listeners, this is your host today, bill Bannam, and in this artificial intelligence-focused HR Chat episode, we're going to hear from Siobhan Clark-Joel, also known as CJ. Cj is a top 100 brilliant women in AI ethics 2024 global AI ethics advocate, thought leader, innovator in digital wellness and resilience, and she's a recent speaker at one of the AI summits that I get up to with Giancarlo, and that was in Milton Keynes. Cj has created two organizations that tackle different sides of the same challenge. Ckc Cares focuses on the human side of digital transformation, while the TLC Group addresses technical governance and cybersecurity. Why is bridging these two worlds so critical right now? Well, we're going to find out in this interview today. Hey, cj, welcome to the show.

Speaker 3: 1:23

Hi Bill, Excited to be here.

Speaker 2: 1:26

Me too and this is listeners been a little while coming and CJ's been very patient with me to find a time for us both to record, so I appreciate that, CJ. Cj, why don't you start by taking a minute or two and telling our listeners about your roles at CKC Cares and the TLC group, how they differ and how your background shapes the work that you do in AI governance due to well-being and resilience?

Speaker 3: 1:50

Sure, thank you for that. So at CKC Cares, I hold the role of principal consultant and I lead a brilliant team of professionals. They come from a background project management and AI policy and governance and innovation, and we focus around human-centric challenges of technology, addressing issues like, as you mentioned, digital well-being, ethical AI governance and fostering cultural resilience. Our work is unique in its creative approach, blending innovation with an emphasis on belonging and fun to ensure that people thrive alongside technology. Now, in contrast, Bill, my role at the TLC group of companies. We focus on the technical side. As chief disruption officer, alongside my co-founder, a cybersecurity and resilience expert, I help organizations strengthen their technical resilience. This includes developing robust cybersecurity measures, data protection policies and AI governance strategies to manage risks while maintaining cultural and ethical alignment while maintaining cultural and ethical alignment.

Speaker 3: 3:05

Now, my career spans roles in postgraduate education, legal insurance, supply chain sectors and public service, with one of my most recent being the role at Bermuda's Privacy Commissioner's Office, leading innovation and engagement strategies as Assistant Commissioner. These experiences, Bill, have enabled me to creatively approach some of those complex challenges, blending human-centric approaches with technical interest as well, and so, through my work with CKC Cares and the TLC group, I've recognized that leaders, we need a range of skills to manage today's toughest digital challenges, and so a focus on human well-being and belonging. Alongside the industry expertise and awareness of governments, it helps to ensure that organizations can navigate this evolving digital landscape with integrity, strength and a forward-thinking mindset. So all of these things, I think, are so important for us to really bring ourselves in an authentic way when we approach leadership in this day and age.

Speaker 4: 4:19

Thanks for listening to this episode of the HR Chat Podcast. If you enjoy the audio content we produce, you'll love our articles on the HR Gazette. Learn more at hrgazettecom. And now back to the show.

Speaker 2: 4:35

Okay, wonderful. Thank you, cj. So you recently spoke at the MKAI Summit, as I mentioned in my intro. In 90 seconds or less, cj, tell me about the session and some of the hoped for learning outcomes.

Speaker 3: 4:49

Yeah, I mean. Thank you so much for hosting such an amazing summit. You may remember there's adorable twin babies on the screen, bill. Well, those are my fraternal twin nieces and I like to draw a reference to them. They're fraternal and they are very different. But what's amazing that I noticed about them very quickly is that they can switch personalities. So at one period of time might be a few months, could be a few days, you just never know One could be really friendly and outgoing and the other could be really reserved and shy, and then they would swap.

Speaker 3: 5:28

And so it started me thinking about this with digital and physical self, that the way we show up in many different digital platforms may not resemble or even align I couldn't even think of a word but align with who we are in our physical self. And so this brings on quite a number of challenges when we talk about the digital transformation and you know businesses now introducing technology and individuals, their performance being measured on their ability to learn and engage with technology, engaging with a digital twin self. And so in that session I really wanted to plant that seed of digital twin self, digital saboteur, the internal interruption, so to speak, that impede our ability to positively contribute to digital transformation and so really thinking of it at a human level as I talk about, I wanted really for individuals to get a good understanding of the thought of why we need to think about teams and even perhaps at a personal level when we are considering the impacts of digital transformation.

Speaker 2: 6:58

You were wonderful Listeners. I've already invited CJ to speak at more of the events I'm involved with in 2025. And she said yes, and I'm very excited More to come on that, but that's a conversation for another time. So many companies, cj, are trying to limit the generative tools that their employees are accessing, which, in my mind, is not only crazy, it's just not achievable, because we all have this little thing in our pockets. It's called a phone. So this is. This is something that folks refer to as shadow AI. Ie organizations are grappling with employees bringing AI tools to work, and employees are secretly using chat, gpt and other AI tools to work, and employees are secretly using ChatGPT and other AI tools creating shadow AI. Instead of fighting this trend, you suggest and I agree with you that a company should embrace it. Briefly, in under two minutes, walk us through your perspective on turning this challenge into an opportunity.

Speaker 3: 7:59

Sure Bill. Shadow AI signals that employees are proactively finding smarter ways to work. Sometimes, though, it outpaces traditional governance, but in today's fast moving environment, top-down AI policies will struggle to keep up with employees adopting those tools. Instead of resisting the trend, I encourage organizations to use this as an opportunity to co-create governance policies with their teams and embracing it as an inclusive and collaborative approach. At CKC Cares, we've developed governance frameworks that help to balance creativity with security, transforming this challenge into an opportunity, and so it's really, I think, not about relinquishing control, but it's more about enabling safe exploration while safeguarding organizational integrity. Shadow AI, then, embraced strategically, can transform from a threat into a powerful competitive advantage.

Speaker 5: 9:03

I think, though, Once in a while, an event series is born that shakes things up, it makes you think differently and it leaves you inspired. That event is Disrupt HR. The format is 14 speakers, five minutes each and slides rotate every 15 seconds. If you're an HR professional, a CEO, a technologist or a community leader and you've got something to say about talent, culture or technology, Disrupt is the place. It's coming soon to a city near you. Learn more at disrupthrco.

Speaker 2: 9:44

Okay, very good. I think you had about 30 seconds to spare there. Good work, good work.

Speaker 3: 9:49

I chopped a whole paragraph from a little mini-jig.

Speaker 2: 9:55

Let's talk a little bit about digital identity. Your digital twin self framework suggests we're all developing split personalities our physical selves and our digital selves. Um, elon musk love him or hate him says that we're all cyborgs, and actually we have been for quite some time because we're attached to those mobile phones. As ai blurs these lines further, how do we maintain authentic human connections and leadership in a workplace where we can't tell if we're talking to a person, their digital twin or an AI? Tell us more.

Speaker 3: 10:31

Yeah, I mean the digital twin self duality. It challenges authenticity and human connection. This requires transparency and intentionality, I believe, to bridge the gap. Digital transformation in the workplace, I mean.

Speaker 3: 10:46

These things are compounded by blurring work-life boundaries, infringing on privacy and enabling discrimination in some ways. Gartner reports that 67% of employees now work remotely or in hybrid settings, creating additional complexities in aligning both physical and digital identities, and so tools like employee monitoring and AI decision-making they risk breaching privacy, equality and labor laws if not managed responsibly. Tracking without transparency or relying on biased algorithms could even spark legal disputes, while failing to respect the right to disconnect or to provide training, it can risk labor violations. And so you know our digital twin cell framework. It helps to align employees' physical and digital identities, ensuring that authenticity and work and interactions are more seen in that particular environment. It equips leaders to model transparency, clearly signaling when AI or digital twins could be involved, and here I'm talking about a different digital twins that we may be using digital twin platforms or digital twin tools.

Speaker 3: 12:07

It's really about valuing human presence in decision making, and so by following this, we hope organizations can address some of those growing challenges that we may not have even faced as yet as far as digital fatigue and the fragmentation of identities in hybrid work environments. As the work culture evolves, bill beyond physical spaces and shared values and digital behaviors. These things shared values and digital behaviors are going to be the most important thing when it comes to trust and connection, and so, through the frameworks of digital twin self and leadership is another one which really is E for empathy, a for adaptability, mindfulness, m and presence. This amplified leadership, I believe, is so important to build inclusive cultures where employees bring their full selves to work. It's really going to help with intentional practices and encourage organizations to build authentic and human connections as they continue to build their digital transformation frameworks.

Speaker 5: 13:27

Fidelio Inc is a consulting firm specializing in improving human performance and we're proud to support the HR Chat podcast. We help identify strategic competencies and behaviors that drive results. Our team offers an HR web software to manage systems, reports and data for HR people that need the best insights to make the right decisions and achieve better results. Learn more at Fidelocom.

Speaker 2: 13:54

CJ, I think we're going to have to do a part two of this conversation because I've got a whole bunch more questions for you. However, the office that I'm using right now, somebody else got this booked in two minutes, cj, so we will find another time to do the rest of this, but for today, before we wrap up, how can our listeners connect with you? So is that linkedin email address, tiktok, instagram, whatever that might look like? Um, how can they also learn more about?

Speaker 3: 14:31

ckc cares and, of course, the tlc group. Tell us so if you're more interested in that human centric side and you know how do we find the balance between human and technology. That would be more of the CKC Cares and then more of the harder decisions around sensing and shaping and adapting our systems and processes as we continue in digital transformation. That would be the TLC group, bill.

Speaker 2: 15:03

Wonderful. Well, that just leaves me to say for today CJ, you awesome human being, Thank you very much for being my guest.

Speaker 3: 15:10

Thank you, bill, appreciate your time.

Speaker 2: 15:12

And listeners, as always, until next time. Happy working. Bill, appreciate your time and listeners, as always, until next time, happy working.

Speaker 1: 15:19

Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show. If you enjoyed this episode, why not subscribe and listen to some of the hundreds of episodes published by HR Gazette and remember for what's new in the world of work? Subscribe to the show, follow us on social media and visit HRGazettecom.