Tech Jobs in 2025 with Mark Chaffey, hackajob

Wondering where the tech job market is headed and how HR is evolving to meet the challenges of tomorrow? Keen to learn if 2025 will see candidates back in the driver’s seat?

The guest this time is Mark Chaffey, CEO of tech hiring platform hackajob. Tune in as we assess the current job market - characterized by increased candidate availability and AI-driven tools - and look ahead to a hopeful resurgence in tech hiring in 2025. 

Mark shares the journey of how hackajob is reshaping the hiring landscape by placing candidates at the center, allowing companies to pitch to them first. With an impressive 85% response rate, this approach is changing the game for tech professionals and recruiters alike. Plus, Mark gives us a peek into his personal adventures, moving from London to the bustling streets of New York, and how the city’s vibrant energy matches his own.

About hackajob

Businesses use hackajob's full-stack hiring platform to source talent through a two-sided marketplace, craft a compelling employer brand to a community of over 500k tech professionals, conduct online assessments and remote interviews as well as generate powerful insights about their diversity and inclusion performance.

The platform is underpinned by over 50 million first-party data points on technical professionals that leverage proprietary AI models to enable companies to get an 85% response rate, to individuals they message via our marketplace; whilst reducing the number of applications to make a hire by 7x.

Chapters

• 0:03 CEO Discusses Tech HR Strategy
• 12:08 Connecting at HR Tech Conferences

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:03

Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's most downloaded and shared podcasts designed for HR pros, talent execs, tech enthusiasts and business leaders. For hundreds more episodes and what's new in the world of work, subscribe to the show, follow us on social media and visit HRGazettecom and visit hrgazettecom.

Speaker 2: 0:26

Welcome to the HR Chat Show. This is your host today, bill Bannam, and joining me on this episode is none other than Mark Chaffee, ceo over at HackerJob. Mark is the CEO of the tech hiring platform HackerJob, which he co-founded in 2014. Since then, hackerjob has raised $35 million in investments to back the platform's growth, grown a team to over 120 people and is the largest tech hiring platform in the UK and the US. What about that, listeners? Through HackerJob's full-stack hiring platform, companies are able to directly source talent through two-sided marketplace, craft a compelling employer brand to a community of over 500 000 tech pros, conduct online assessments and remote interviews, as well as generate powerful insights about their diversity and inclusion performances. The platform is underpinned by over 50 million first-party data points on technical professionals that leverage priority ai models to enable companies to get an 85% response rate to individuals they message via their marketplace, while reducing the number of applications to make hire by seven times better. That's not bad, mark. Welcome to the show today. How are you doing?

Speaker 3: 1:42

Thank you so much for having me. I'm very good man. I'm very good. How are you?

Speaker 2: 1:46

I am very, very good. Thank you very much. What I didn't mention there in the intro is Mark is a cool British dude who moved over about a year ago to NYC and we're just having a bit of a chit chat before we hit record today. He is loving it, and why not? What an amazing place to be right, mark.

Speaker 3: 2:03

Yeah, it's an incredible, incredible city. Before this I spent 10 years in London and I love London. It's got a very special place in my heart. But New York there isn't really anywhere like it in the world. It's like London, but busier, smettier, noisier, dirtier, more intense, and I kind of love all of those things. So you get the eclectic industries and the diversity of people that London brings, but unlike fast forward and that kind of suits my energy.

Speaker 2: 2:31

so it's uh, it's been a great move okay, so beyond my introduction, just a moment of going mark. Why don't you take a minute or two and tell our listeners a bit more about yourself?

Speaker 3: 2:41

yeah, awesome.

Speaker 3: 2:42

So I co-founded Hackerjob with my co founder, razvan, whilst we're both at university at King's College London, and that, as you said, was 10 years ago now, which has been a pretty incredible journey.

Speaker 3: 2:52

What's really interesting is like the central thesis of the business hasn't necessarily changed in that time, which is, we believe every company in the world is now a technology business. Technology has evolved from a standalone industry to a function that touches every industry, and therefore, if you're going to be successful as an organization over the next decades, you need a really great technical strategy and it's really great tech people that will create that strategy, that will execute that strategy. The challenge that we aim to solve is that the tech persona is a slightly different persona. They don't hang out on LinkedIn and Indeed as much as other kind of personas of candidates do, and so we believe there should be a dedicated place where tech professionals can find their next job, and that's what we're going to build with hacker job. It has been an incredible 10-year journey of lots of highs and lots of lows, but I wouldn't have traded it for the world okay, love it.

Speaker 2: 3:42

Thank you very much. So, as you mentioned, hack, a job, recently celebrated its 10-year anniversary. Congratulations to you. Um, what does it mean, mark, to offer a candidate centric platform? I like this term. This is all over your website, I think. What does that mean?

Speaker 3: 3:59

explain that to our listeners yeah, well, if you think about the technology, professional and the challenge that they have when they find a new job, there's kind of two things. One, they either get spams by completely irrelevant opportunities um, by whether that be recruiters etc. On linkedin, and so often they just timed off their linkedin profile or, on the other hand, they might apply for jobs and just never hear back, like I've heard internal recruiters call direct applications just going to like the waste bin. It's just like, ah, you know, we don't have time to look at all of this. So what we've done is effectively flipped the model and, rather than a candidate applying to the job, actually it's the company that makes the first move and applies to the candidate, and so this creates this really magical candidate experience.

Speaker 3: 4:41

Candidates can only get pitched by employers that meet their salary expectations, visa status, location preferences, tech stack, etc. And so, because we've created this great candidate experience where they remain in complete control, none of their contact details are shared about them wanting to, etc. They end up getting or responding to 85% of the messages they get from employers. So, in turn, recruiters end up loving our platform because they end up with this much more engaged talent pool, and that's the thing that's always been kind of amusing to us. By focusing on the candidate and creating a really candidate-centric platform which is effectively putting them at the heart of the experience, you end up creating a better recruiter experience anyway, and that's kind of the recipe that we've ended up scaling the business with.

Speaker 4: 5:23

Thanks for listening to this episode of the HR Chat Podcast. If you enjoy the audio content we produce, you'll love our articles on the HR Gazette. Learn more at hrgazettecom. And now back to the show.

Speaker 2: 5:39

You moved to New York about a year ago. You're now one of these cool New Yorkers I'm walking here. How does mic compare to to the uk? Uh, what are? What are some of those cultural differences that perhaps you miss from being in in london? Or perhaps you're just lapping up being over in new york?

Speaker 3: 6:00

yeah, so I think the things I miss um, we were just talking before recording. I'm a massive man United football fan and so man United end up playing at really weird hours of the day here, which can be fun. There's a man United supporters bar called Smithfield Hall which, at 9am on a Sunday, is completely full of British man United fans drinking Guinness, watching the early kickoff on a Sunday, which is fun. Drinking Guinness, watching, like the early kickoff on a Sunday, which is fun. So definitely miss that. You can't beat the Indian food in London and I absolutely love a great curry night with the guys, so definitely miss that too.

Speaker 3: 6:34

I mean, when you think about the differences between New York and London, or maybe even the US and the UK, I think moving to a new country, you really get to understand what does culture actually mean and I just gave some sports and cuisine examples but really, the DNA of America is a country that's 250 years old, that was built by people that traveled the oceans to go and explore new lands, and I think you really feel that. The idea of an American dream yeah, it's very cliche and unfortunately, it's probably not available to everyone as much as it once was very cliche and unfortunately it's probably not available to everyone as much as it once was. But when you apply it through the lens of business, it's just this economic engine that keeps going, no matter what is going on in the world. It just keeps going. And you kind of compare that to the UK, which honestly, I think from like an economic and political perspective, has kind of lost its identity.

Speaker 3: 7:20

I don't think the UK really knows what it is anymore, which is really. It's a shame and I wish we had like more inspirational political figures that could really paint an exciting vision for Britain. But you look at kind of all of the GDP stats and the productivity stats, you know the UK has effectively gone sideways for 15 years and that's a real shame because there's so much to love about the UK. It's got such a magical place in history and the culture. The uk. It's got such a magical place in history and the culture, um. But I think that it it's in need of a bit of a reboot from like an economic perspective.

Speaker 2: 7:52

Um, and that's really exaggerated when you go and live in a new country and you can kind of experience the the us perspective let's talk about a fun pastime that I enjoy and for my homework I discovered that you're a bit of a fan of as well. That's poker. Um, so I understand that since you've been over in new york you've been getting into into poker. You've been making loads of friends by doing that. Can you, can you maybe name a few world of work influences that you'd love to play with in an ideal poker game?

Speaker 3: 8:24

Yeah, this is like a great variation of, like your favorite dinner party guests, but instead we're doing world of poker for HR tech influencers. Well, obviously, bill, now that I know you're a big poker guy, you would obviously have to be around the table and bring your Norwich FC kind of supporters hat and we can have some good kind of chat around where Norwich is at. So obviously Bill's going to be there.

Speaker 2: 8:48

I'm getting this, by the way. I'll be.

Speaker 3: 8:50

I'll be out within the first few hands, probably, hey my, my whole philosophy of poker is I use it to buy friends. Doesn't mean I'm any good at it, right, but it means that you know it's a great way to buy friends. So, um, I'm gonna go with the legend that is Hun Lee. I know that he doesn't play poker, but that guy always just comes with some great energy, some great insight, so I'm going to bring him in. I'm going to bring the Chad and Cheese guys in One because they bring some great bourbon. Two because they swear as much as me, so I won't feel as bad and I get the sense that Chad is probably a bit of a car chump, would be my guess. So I'm going to do that. And then I'm going to round the table out with Matt Adler, because I feel like sometimes you just need that classy British gent in the room and I feel like that's Matt Adler to a T, and I know he likes his bourbon too, so we could do that.

Speaker 3: 9:43

And I'm sure there's going to be people offended that I forgot, um, but a special shout out to paul humphries, who was one of our first ever customers, and when I was talking about poker on linkedin yesterday, I've known paul for probably 10 years now. Um, he was like mark. I've known you for 10 years. I had no idea you went to poker. I'm obsessed. So paul gets a seat at a table as a head of TA, not an influencer, but he's there as well.

Speaker 2: 10:07

So I was at the Textio after party during HR Tech in Vegas, I guess now, as we record this, about six weeks ago I was invited by the wonderful Jackie Clayton Jackie is again as we record this. She's kind of following me around a bit in the UK. She spoke at an AI summit in Liverpool I did last week, and a relaunch of Disrupt HR Manchester last week as well, and then tomorrow me and her are hanging out in London for Disrupt London with HR Zone. Where am I going with this story? Yes, mr Adler was there and you're right. He's got this kind of suave thing going on about him. I've never met him in person before. I'd interviewed him on the show many years ago, uh, but he's got that natural charisma. A pretty cool dude, by all accounts. Um, you were recently at rec fest usa. What's good about that particular event? And, uh, what other industry events do you try and attend each year?

Speaker 3: 11:04

Yeah, great question. So I think what the guys, jamie and the team at T-Rec have done so well is not organize another conference in Las Vegas, like all of these conferences that are kind of in one of the hotels in the world of HR or HR tech. They're like you're going to a festival in the field to discuss hiring, like what is going on, and I think that like really stands out. I think where they've taken it to another level is the caliber of speakers that now speak at recfest has gone up massively over the last couple of years and the content that the guys are producing is incredible. So, yeah, we're big fans of jamie and the team. We do a bunch of work with them in the uk. I think they've done really well taking it to the us and hey, bill, who doesn't want to go to nashville for a weekend? I mean, what a fun place that is. So, um, yeah, big fans of that and we've done a lot of the big ones in vegas hr tech will generally be at.

Speaker 3: 12:08

Um, hr Tech is just a great spot to kind of walk the floor, see what's going on. It's a slightly odd conference in the sense that it's way more vendors than there are prospects or potential buyers, but it's a great opportunity to kind of meet industry analysts and influencers. We're exploring the ERE guys. We were at a couple of their events in San Diego. We're looking at, possibly, sourcecon next year. So you know, we're always on the hunt for different events. We organize a lot of our own first-party events, which is always a really great thing to do get customers in a room together, chatting, learning. So yeah, they're the ones we're kind of always kind of looking at. But I'll chuck it back at you bill.

Speaker 2: 12:54

Given it sounds like you're at a different event every week. What are the ones I should be at? That, uh, that, yeah, what are some of your favorites at the moment? Well, thank you very much for asking. Uh, this year I have attended sherm. I tried to go to sherm at least every other year, um, and if you're looking for sheer numbers of awesome hr folks, you can't do better than sh mine, I think. Uh, this year I think they have 27 000 in-person attendees. Uh, and then, in terms of the expo floor, you've got over 600 exhibitors there and, of course, lots, lots of cool content. Uh, shameless plug listeners.

Speaker 2: 13:23

Uh, johnny c taylor has been on the show a couple of times. Most recently was to talk about the controversial decision to remove the e from di and focus more on inclusion and civility. So do check that one out. Um, I was unleashed last year in paris. What an amazing city. That's a great event. Mark colman and his team do an awesome job there, for sure. Uh, atd. So it's not an hr recruitment event, it's more on the learning side. Um, I was introduced to ATD by someone who used to be in the comms team at Sherm, mallory Flynn. Hello, mallory, if you're listening. You're wonderful and I've attended the last couple of those in San Diego and then this year was New Orleans.

Speaker 2: 13:58

I think, um, that's, that's a, that's a cracking event. Uh, if you're talking to more than just HR pros and recruiters, of course, all of the disrupt events are pretty fun. I'm involved with a bunch of those in the UK, plus, randomly, buffalo, new York. So I think you know, if you're looking for something a bit more small scale but more intimate in terms of networking, have a bit of fun and you wear jeans and be cool, those ones are good. South by Southwest is a good one. There's a bunch out there, for sure. There.

Speaker 3: 14:27

South by Southwest is a good one. There's a bunch out there, for sure there's a bunch out there. Maybe I'll come and join the one in Buffalo and we can go and watch the Bills play. I'm a big Josh Allen fan, so that could be a fun one to hit up.

Speaker 2: 14:37

Okay, in that case I'm going to follow up with you and get you along to our next Buffalo event. There we go. It's only a wee eight or nine hour drive, think, from new york city.

Speaker 2: 14:46

that's fine, that's fine easy we are already coming towards the end of this particular chit chat. I did tell you before we hit record they're not very long, um, next question uh, as we are recording this towards the end of 2024, it's it's that time of the year where it's apt to say what are your predictions for the year of heads when it comes to, in your case, uh, tech jobs. What does the jobs market look like for tech folks in 2025?

Speaker 3: 15:12

Well, I mean, just before we look forward, if we look backwards, for the last 18 months, we've been in pretty unprecedented times. We've been doing this business for 10 years and I don't think we've ever seen a softer job market in tech as what it has been right now, and there's so many factors that play into that. But overall, there are less companies hiring, there are more candidates available. The rise of these AI applied tools mean that everybody is just spammed with applications. So it's been a very funky period, that's for sure. My guess, specifically as it relates to the US, would be that we will see a very strong comeback in 2025 for just general hiring. And if you think about where the US is at and I'm by no means a macroeconomics expert, but they've turned over inflation, they've started the rates cuts.

Speaker 3: 15:58

Obviously, the election was last week when we're recording this and, whatever your politics is and, as you point, this is not a politics show it was a decisive victory in one way, and I think it just gives the country certainty for the next four or five years.

Speaker 3: 16:11

This is what we're doing, and I think certainty is good for business, and that's true if it had gone either way, to be really clear. So my prediction would be we're not going to see the craziness of 2020, 2021. I don't think we'll probably ever see that again, but I would expect us to be back above pre-COVID levels. Right now, bill, we are 30% down on pre-COVID levels as an industry when it comes to technical hiring, so it's not like we're just down on the craziness of 2021. We're down on pre-COVID and I just don't think that's going to sustain.

Speaker 3: 16:44

And the last hot take that I heard recently was, whilst the US has dodged a recession, it's actually effectively been in a white collar recession, because so much of the GDP growth from the US is coming from government, coming from public spending, from some of these massive bills that have been passed, and so I can't see all of that continuing as we go into 2025. So obviously, as a founder of a business, I'm a natural optimist. I'm always a glass half full person, but I think, if you look at the economic indicators, our strong suspicion is that 2025 will be a really strong year of growth for technical hiring.

Speaker 2: 17:18

Excellent. Thank you very much, and just finally, for this particular conversation, but I am going to harass you and get you on again very soon, but for now, here's a doozy for you. How can our listeners connect with you I bet you're super cool and all over the TikToks and the Instagrams, as well as the LinkedIns and such and, of course, how can they learn more about Hacker Job?

Speaker 3: 17:37

Yeah, so LinkedIn is round by far and away the most active, so just search me Mark Chaffee on LinkedIn I think the URL is mchaffee would love to connect to people. I post a bunch. So, yeah, love all the engagement you can get on LinkedIn. I am one of those like silent stalkers on Twitter, slash x like. I am on it all the time but very rarely post, so give me a follow on there. I am on Instagram that is my personal Instagram. That is private and locked down, so don't follow me there. Um, I am on instagram that is my personal instagram. That is private and locked down, so don't follow me there. And I am not on tiktok, because tiktok is poison for the brain in my opinion, so I have avoided tiktok like the plague. Um, in terms of hacker job, go to hackerjobcom.

Speaker 3: 18:17

Earlier this year, we rolled out hacker job intelligence, which is our ai powered sourcing platform, and I'm just really proud of what we've built. I think that we haven't hit on it too much in this episode, but this is the most exciting time to be a tech entrepreneur, like what is happening with ai is it feels. I'm sure this is what it must have felt like when the internet was getting popular, and when mobile came out and unfortunately I miss both of those. But yeah, it's really exciting and I'm just super proud of what we've built. I think we've approached things in a very different way. The feedback we've had from customers has been amazing. We've onboarded over 400 customers now to hack the job intelligence over the last three months. So, yeah, check it out. We offer a completely free 30-day trial so you can go and get your hands dirty, play with it. Always want to hear people's. My challenge is to go and break it and send us the feedback. So, yeah, that's where you can find me and that's where you can go and learn a bit more about Hapkijob.

Speaker 2: 19:08

Mark, I am definitely going to follow up with you see if we can get you involved with some of our events. We do AI summits as well as these disrupts. I'd love to get you back. Thank you very much for being my guest.

Speaker 3: 19:19

Bill. Thank you so much. Man, Love your style, love the pod and, yeah, excited to see how we can work together.

Speaker 2: 19:28

And listeners as always. Until next time, happy working.

Speaker 1: 19:32

Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show. If you enjoyed this episode, why not subscribe and listen to some of the hundreds of episodes published by HR Gazette and remember for what's new in the world of work? Subscribe to the show, follow us on social media and visit hrgazettecom.