Creating a Safe and Empowering Workplace with John Ferguson, NASCAR

Can leaders truly create an environment where employees feel safe to share their mental health challenges? Join us on the HR Chat Show as John Ferguson, Chief Human Resources Officer at NASCAR, shares insights into how workplace culture is transforming with the entry of Gen Z.

Through personal stories and professional experiences, John discusses the importance of leaders modeling transparency and support, creating a culture where employees can bring their whole selves to work without fear of judgment.

Listen as Bob Goodwin and John explore how the balance between professional duties and personal life is critical for mental wellness, emphasizing the value of empathy, emotional intelligence, and adaptability in navigating these evolving dynamics.

Discover the power of personal agency and autonomy as we delve into how these play essential roles in both personal development and workplace empowerment. By fostering an environment that supports growth and work-life balance, organizations not only benefit current employees but also cultivate future brand ambassadors. We discuss the importance of maintaining a strong sense of self and a guiding "North Star" to help navigate life's challenges, especially amid the ongoing changes since 2020. Insights from Viktor Frankl's "Man's Search for Meaning" illustrate how purpose can be found even in adversity, encouraging a mindset that embraces change while holding onto core values and self-awareness.

Chapters

• 0:03 Mental Wellness in the Workplace
• 13:08 Maintaining Professionalism Through Emotional Intelligence
• 19:39 Workplace Empowerment and Personal Development

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:03

Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's most downloaded and shared podcasts designed for HR pros, talent execs, tech enthusiasts and business leaders. For hundreds more episodes and what's new in the world of work, subscribe to the show, follow us on social media and visit HRGazettecom. And visit HRGazettecom. Hey everybody.

Speaker 2: 0:24

this is Bob Goodwin, president of Career Club, and welcome to a special episode of HR Chat. I'm really excited to introduce today's guest, who's also a friend. John Ferguson is the CHRO at NASCAR and a real thought leader in sort of the next generation of all things HR, and with that, john welcome.

Speaker 3: 0:45

Hey Bob, good to see you today. Thank you so much for the opportunity to join you, leader in sort of the next generation of all things, hr, and with that John welcome. Hey Bob, good to see you today, thank you so much for the opportunity to join you, and it's always a good time when we get a chance to talk, so excited to be here.

Speaker 2: 0:55

No, thank you so much. Where are you at today? Are you in the office?

Speaker 3: 0:57

I am in the office. And the office is where we're in Daytona Beach, florida, so we get to enjoy the sunshine state there.

Speaker 2: 1:04

You go Awesome. Well, normally I would talk your ear off a little bit and do a bunch of gabbing, but these are shorter episodes so I need to stay focused. So there's a few things that I'd like for folks to kind of hear you talk about. One of the things that I know that is near and dear to you is mental wellness in the workplace. We've talked about this in other forums before, but you know, in the current environment whether we're talking about the election, which is this is being recorded is still to be happening Wars, inflation, interest rates, layoffs, all kinds of things sort of going on externally People have their real lives between kids, aging parents, health, finances, all the things that go on in real life. And then, oh yeah, there's work. That also is a stressor. What are some of the things that how you guys kind of philosophically think about mental wellness, bringing your whole self to work and helping people really be the best version of themselves in life and at work.

Speaker 3: 2:13

I take a deep breath there so we can really reflect on what that means. I think, when we look at the shifting generations in the workplace, the ability to bring your whole self into the workplace is going to become more and more present. Yes, older generations probably operate it from a lens of separation. There I go to work, I do my job, I go home, I live my personal life. Work I do my job, I go home, I live my personal life. As we work, play and live all in kind of this continuous circle, those clear lines of separation are becoming more and more blurred, and so I think some of the information that we'll see with Gen Z entering the workforce is going to help us all be more open, be more candid, be more transparent. However, that will be different for different folks. We're going to have different reactions to that.

Speaker 3: 3:09

So when I think about mental health in the workplace, as leaders, I think we have an obligation to, as best we can, lead by example, because I've heard a quote once that leaders cast long shadows. So in casting a long shadow, people are watching and looking at your behavior to determine how they may or may not show up in that space. So if we are transparent about the ailments or the challenges or I would just say general adulting that happens in our life. We give a level of clearance to those that are experiencing the same thing, and they don't have to come in and act as if everything is perfect. So you know, I'm transparent.

Speaker 3: 3:49

Look, we had a leak in our roof. I need to be at home today to help get that fixed. Or, you know, my daughter's not feeling well. I'm leaving to go pick her up from school. I would never want anyone on my team to feel as if they couldn't be a part of or take care of their family due to something at work. I mean, we've all heard it we all are here on borrowed time, and these companies will continue to move on whether we're here or not, and so I want to make sure that, while we are in this space and time together, that everyone is getting what they need. So I think it's a bit of a give and take. Maybe at some point I'm able to give X percent and that group's able to give X percent, but at the end of the day, we should be able to find balance that allows everyone to to live their best life while also being able to provide for their family.

Speaker 2: 4:37

I remember in a previous conversation, john, you shared with me that there was a colleague of yours and I can't remember if they're on your team or just somebody that you work with that there was a colleague of yours and I can't remember if they were on your team or just somebody that you worked with, but you noticed that they weren't kind of themselves like maybe something had happened, but, whatever it was, you knew them well enough to be able to call them over and say, hey, do you mind sharing a little bit of not just that story, but why being able to be proactive and ask about these kinds of things is important for your frontline managers, hr leaders and everybody really.

Speaker 3: 5:14

I think that's a matter of slowing down enough to be aware, but also having enough observation of your teammates to understand. Well, maybe something's slightly off today. So that did happen. It was a former colleague. I remember we were having a conversation and they were naturally more on the quiet side, but I had worked with them long enough to understand something was off about it. So I saw them earlier and I noticed it, but there was a lot of people around so it wasn't a time to say anything and I was like, well, maybe I could be off. But then I saw them later in the day and we were crossing in the hallway and I could still get the same sort of measurement and I said, hey, how are you? And that was when the sort of doors opened to understanding greater depth of what was going on in that individual's life. We had to think about we don't know what type of home environments people are coming to the workplace from. We don't know what type of upbringing they may have experienced.

Speaker 3: 6:14

I'll never forget once in undergrad I probably was a senior Dr King at Furman University. She I had like writer's block. I was struggling, bob Probably had procrastinated on an assignment, and I went in there and I just was down and instead of going into well, hey, you can build an outline, hey, you can do this she simply said how are you I'm not going to lie, bob Her asking me. That opened a bit of the floodgates and I started crying, you know, because it was just like there was a lot that I had on my shoulders probably last semester of college. I need to do well on this. I'm near the finish line.

Speaker 3: 6:54

All of this pressure and I probably just been holding a lot of things in. You think about social, you think about anxiety of like, what's next? Do I have a job, will I be employed post-graduation? But in that moment and sort of me having that natural release and just flowing with what came up and let it go, I had a clear head and I would even say I had a clear heart so that I could go in and get that paper done and I'm sure I got a good grade out of it.

Speaker 3: 7:22

But in that moment, her showing that moment of personal care, forget the schoolwork, forget the paper, how are you, john? And then you sit back and you realize when was the last time someone really asked you that? And they meant it. So when I catch employees or notice something's off, I'm naturally inclined to want to make sure they are well, because, at the end of the day, I know we as employees can work ourselves up and I've been guilty of it, of telling, kind of making the story up in our head. Oh, if I miss this deadline or if I don't get this just right, you know I could be X, y, z, you name it. But maybe if I go and have the conversation with whoever the product is due for, help them understand the nuance of life that either has popped up or maybe is being a hindrance to us.

Speaker 2: 8:35

That's built when everybody can get a little bit below that waterline and have humility in the workplace. The first thing that strikes me, john, that you've said there was really kind of an intentionality. I love what you said slowing down, just slow down. There's an intentionality. The second thing that you did was you didn't do it in public, you waited until a more private moment to talk to them.

Speaker 2: 9:03

When I think about Dr King and your experience with her, I think it's kind of the point that I was making earlier.

Speaker 2: 9:08

Like you were in school at the time.

Speaker 2: 9:16

But you know, just today in the workplace there's somebody at NASCAR, there's somebody who's listening to this, who is feeling all this pressure and all this stress. And again, when we say, bring our whole selves to work, like people are and it's how they compartmentalize things or deal with things, dr King did you a great favor because she just asked, and now it's kind of up to you whether you want to share or not share, and that's cool, right, like no problem. But I know, like in whether we're working with job seekers or in the outplacement practice or just executive coaching, sometimes the tendency is to get very tactical and practical and those kinds of things and not just talk to the human being, not the work producing unit. And it is amazing how often I've had the experience of being the Dr King in that equation of just saying, well, susan, how do you I mean before we get into all the resume and LinkedIn and forget all that crap how are you in watching the floodgates open? And they just kind of needed somebody to care enough to ask.

Speaker 3: 10:27

Right, that is, that is true. And I even think about our children. I think about the kids going through school, because we've seen incidents in the media. I don't need to label anything, but when did someone ask like how are you, what's going on with you, how is this experience going for you? So I try to slow down enough. And you said something I want to respond to bringing your whole self to work. Now I will say, bob, I think that's nuanced, I do think that's nuanced. And when I say whole self to work or your authentic self, I believe that you should recognize John and Bob for who we are at our core, no matter where we are. So you wouldn't see me at a football game and say that is not the guy that I work with. Or you wouldn't see me at work and say that's not the guy that I went to the football game with. But there are elements of who we are that have to be more prominent, depending on the situation. Does that make sense? I want to build on that.

Speaker 2: 11:28

So we have a mutual friend in Johnny Taylor from SHRM, and Johnny and I were talking about this a few weeks ago and this I love what you said who you are, not just where you are. That is a great expression and what we were talking about were core values. And when your core values are aligned with your work, the mission of what you're working on, and you find purpose and I'm going to make a word picture here in a minute of being one person at home and one person at work, that's exhausting and when people talk about it for people that are just listening to this, I'm holding my hands up like scales. When people do work life balance, think about that. The whole concept there is that they're in conflict with each other and if they're in balance, we've just minimized the conflict versus one plus one is three because they're working together.

Speaker 2: 12:33

The word picture I wanted to use, john, to kind of amplify your point, is if we could say that who I truly am is a liquid, just is a liquid. The container changes. I might be in a work container, I might be in a parental container, I might be in a spousal container, I might be in a friend container. Whatever, the liquid is the same Like I'm, not something different, it's just the container you find me in. I'm shaped a little bit differently, I might look a little bit different. I'm still the same me ideally, irrespective of the context, which is a container. You want to respond to that.

Speaker 3: 13:10

I love the way you put it. I'm going to take that on the road with me and I'll be sure to give you credit, but that's it. That's exactly it, because I have to show up differently for different environments, but I never want you to say that wasn't the John that I know. No, I'm still the same John, but how I may talk to my children is going to be different than how I may talk to my colleague, but I want you to still know the essence of who I am. Through all of those transactions.

Speaker 3: 13:34

My core beliefs, my core mission, my core values are still going to be consistent, and I just think that's really important, because when you know there are certain elements of no matter who we are, they aren't appropriate for certain areas. Like, I wouldn't have a conversation that I would have with my children with a colleague. It's just simple as that. There's just that nuance, and so I want to make sure that the incoming generation and the emerging generation workforce understands that piece, because there are some things that you shouldn't discuss in the workplace. Workplace, right, you know, uh, but that doesn't mean you can't be who you are, but there are certain parameters that you still want to have because this is a professional environment, so, and I think you can have that work-life blend. You can totally have that, uh, but you need to to to be mindful of what container is needed for that moment.

Speaker 2: 14:25

that's exactly right and then that, you know, really kind of bridges us into emotional intelligence, right and being, and being able to quote, read the room and, you know, be able to understand what's the context that I'm in right now and what does that call for. And you know, I love what you said about. You know there are generational differences and that is diversity, and there's not even necessarily a right or a wrong to any of that Right. So it's not judgmental, but respecting other people's boundaries Right, because they're bringing as much of themselves as they want to bring to work. Right.

Speaker 2: 15:03

And so this notion of respect, I think, is really key in all of this, because otherwise it's like you know, ain't nobody going to tell me what to do and you're just kind of being what you want to be and not being very sensitive to how's this affecting other people, and you know. Then we start getting into words like empathy, right, and are we really being the best colleague that we can be when we're just worried about well, this is what I want to do. This is how I want to be.

Speaker 3: 15:36

I think emotional intelligence is a skill that we will never master, and I say that because it requires consistent practice, because different things can bring up different emotions in you which could throw your what you may perceive, your perfection of emotional intelligence. It would throw it off because you're fighting with this natural human instinct to respond in a particular way. And so that's when I go back to the slow down, slow down, slow down. Feel the emotion, try to assess the situation.

Speaker 3: 16:11

And there's nothing wrong with having to tell someone, you know what. I need some time to process that. Can we schedule some time later in the week, because there's a lot that I want to make sure I'm able to understand and review prior to giving you, potentially, the response in this moment. So let me take that one back to the team, or take it back and reflect on it and come back to you, because I think it's that composure and the ability to remain level-headed, because let's just talk about this. Everyone working today is experiencing change. We have been on a roller coaster of change since 2020.

Speaker 4: 16:48

You know we saw the pandemic social justice movement.

Speaker 3: 16:49

We have been on a roller coaster of change since 2020. We saw the pandemic social justice movement. We saw remote hybrid, some people being called back into the office full time. We have seen where the job market was hot you could leave a job and get another job just like that. We've seen it cool off. We've seen interest rates increase. We've seen it be a seller's market, a buyer's market. We have just seen a lot of change, and so one thing that will be consistent and guaranteed in our journeys in life is change. But that doesn't make it easy. That doesn't make it easy.

Speaker 3: 17:23

So I always try to tell people to make sure you are taking care of yourself during change, but also understand and develop the ability to flow, because there's so much in life that we cannot control. What we can control is ourselves and potentially our homes and things of that nature, but when it comes to working, there are going to be some things that we're going to have to learn to flow with, and a good mentor of mine shared recently. He said you need to always have a North Star, and did that change impact your North Star? If it didn't impact that North Star, then flow. But now, if it did something that impacted your personal North Star, then you need to figure out sort of how do you respond to that in a way that allows you to remain true to who you are and what your North Star is.

Speaker 3: 18:11

And I just thought that was very good advice at a time when I needed it because I was focused, potentially, on things that I couldn't control. He's like well, let's think about that. How did it impact your North Star? And I'm like well, you know what? Not so much. He's like then you've got to flow with it. I love it, so I share that. I hope that resonates with you too?

Speaker 2: 18:32

No, a million percent. And so there's a book and maybe a lot of people read this in high school or college or sometimes since but called Man's Search for Meaning, by Viktor Frankl. And he was a Austrian psychiatrist during World War II, jewish Austrian psychiatrist during World War II, jewish. And he lost his whole family in the Holocaust. He spent four years in concentration camps and came out of it. He was the only survivor of his family and you know, you clearly can't imagine more horrific circumstances.

Speaker 2: 19:09

And these are, to your point, externalities and the quote. There's a million of them in this book, but one that just really stands out to me we've even put it on our website is, you know, the the last freedom for a person is the freedom to choose, irrespective of the circumstances, choosing your attitude and choosing your actions, and that's called autonomy and that's called agency, and you know the way that we talk about it is that these are your North stars. I mean, like this is all kind of in the same area and the thing with autonomy, which is the ability to self-govern, and agency, which is with moral authority as part of that. What's right and wrong for me? But one of my values, my true North is nobody can take that away from you, comma. But you can give it to people. I can give it to you, like I'm so mad at how you treated me, it was so unfair, blah, blah, blah. And usually at this point I'll quote Nelson Mandela, where he says bitterness is like swallowing poison and waiting for your enemy to die Right. And so you know when we can recognize that we've got this autonomy, we've got this agency, and you can't take it from me Like this is who I am, this is my North Star.

Speaker 2: 20:36

And, yes, all this is happening, but the way that I think about myself in the present, the way that I think about who I want to become, the way I'm going to choose to react in this situation, is not the lesser person that I could be sometimes, but that's not who I want to be and that's going to govern my reaction to change, because we don't like change at the end I mean, typically, people don't like change. And so how we deal with it and, to your well-made point, the pace of change and the amplitude of change are only increasing. It ain't getting slower. Today is going to be the slowest day of your life moving forward. And so, until we learn how to deal with change. It's just stress. It's just high, high levels of stress.

Speaker 3: 21:24

One thing that stands out to me and when we even think about work-life blend where you want to work, how you want to work, and that autonomy and agency employment is a two-way street and you can be there and have a great time, but then sometimes you are being elevated to another place, and so I think for a lot of people I always say we don't have to be long suffering. If there's something that you don't like and it does impact your North Star, I want to be able to partner with you to help you find whatever that better alignment could be for you, because when you don't like, you say you swallow that bitterness and you're waiting on it to poison someone else. It's just not going to happen. So now you're really unhappy here or wherever you're working or whatever the environment is. I think this is even beyond work context personal families. You know all kinds of things. If it doesn't bring you joy, know that you have autonomy and agency to control the space that is within you and around you.

Speaker 2: 22:24

All.

Speaker 2: 22:25

I can say is amen, but it's a truth that I think all of us need to come to. I think for a lot of people it's not natural, because the natural thing is to complain, be a victim, right, be, you know, long-suffering, as you said, but when it's like, wait a minute, you only get one time around this track. Is that how you want to spend it? Is that going to allow you to be the best version of yourself, for satisfaction, joy? And then, is that what you want to model for people that you influence or would hope to influence? And I think for most parents, they want their children to be happy, not to be at a job that they don't like or doing anything that they're profoundly unhappy at. Life's going to have ups and downs and marriage or anything isn't amazing every day.

Speaker 2: 23:20

You don't jump off the bus at the first bump, but I signed up for this trip. I'm going to stay on this trip. But things like work there's a lot of companies to work at and if a and cultures change, companies change, right, when I started here 10 years ago, it was amazing, but you know this, that and the other has changed. Okay, talk for a minute, john. This is this. Is you're so good at this, about helping people want to be from somewhere like you, right and to give people the freedom to leave. Can you talk about that for a minute?

Speaker 3: 23:59

That's such a powerful idea that I don't hear very often One of my core philosophies in being an HR practitioner and leader of organizations people is we want to be known as a great place to work and a great place to be from, and I think that is really providing the space to welcome Gen Z into the workplace, because the data already says they're not going to be long tenured employees, so we need to start shifting our perspective on how we view retention. So being a great place to work means that while you were here, bob, we had a phenomenal time. We grew, we innovated, we added skills to our toolkit, we impacted the bottom line, we saw expansion. You felt like a whole person at work. I felt like a whole person at work, but, hey, guess what A new opportunity appeared. You're ready for a new challenge, a new something else? Or just you feel like you've done what you needed to do here? You're ready to try something different? We have to look at that in a different light. It's not that where you were today was bad or anything was wrong. It's just that, hey, you have helped me propel myself to the next level, and so that's when it becomes a great place to be from, and that's what you want your organization to be known as I don't know who, anyone who would say otherwise.

Speaker 3: 25:19

You want to be known as a great place to work and then when people leave, they start becoming brand ambassadors and say you know what? I'm so thankful for my time at XYZ Company because I wouldn't be here if I didn't get that experience. It really gave me the skills and the tools and it gave me confidence. And so in that confidence and in that evolution and that professional journey with them, I was prepared and confident to apply for this job or to take that phone call. But then it also allows for you to have that career path and career progression that we know the incoming generation, and I would even say all generations, want to see.

Speaker 3: 25:54

But there's been a point in time where it's like it was stacked above you. No one was leaving. So it's kind of like do I sit here and feel like I'm not getting the full experience, or do I go over here where I can continue to grow and get that full experience and get the exposure that I want or expand my scope? So that's something that I think a lot of companies need to really sit and reflect on, especially as we look at just the shifting dynamics in the workplace, I can't say it enough.

Speaker 3: 26:20

Right now we have a healthy mix of everyone, but that's to your point. That's diversity. But as those generations shift, the behaviors are going to shift too, and companies. Traditionally we've been kind of anchored in like retain, retain, retain, and that is still a great philosophy. But sometimes we have to Potentially help employees reach the next level, even if that means it's beyond our organization, because this is one thing I'm firmly a believer in If we were a great place to work and we become a great place to be from, we can always welcome you back.

Speaker 2: 26:59

You took it out of my mouth. That's waiting.

Speaker 3: 27:01

Yes, the boomerang employee, because now you're coming back and you have this added skill set that nine times out of 10, we could not have provided to you, because every company kind of has its own DNA, so they have something that they're really good at. We have something that we're really good at, but now, when you come back to us at the level that you want to be, you have a fresh perspective. You have a different way of looking at our business and that now makes you more competitive in the job market. Makes you more competitive in the job market, but now it also allows you to add that additional level of value and input and business evolution to what we are currently doing.

Speaker 2: 27:36

John, the problem is the time says we have to start winding down. I had a list of like seven different categories.

Speaker 3: 27:45

I have one more piece, though, one more piece on the mental health.

Speaker 2: 27:48

And this is what we talked about last time.

Speaker 3: 27:50

Oh, what was the app I told you about? So we talked about the feelings wheel is how it came up but it is.

Speaker 3: 27:57

Oh no, I'm moving slow here. Hold on, hold on how we feel. How we feel is a free app that you can download in your app store and it helps you with putting labels on your emotions, and I think sometimes I could outspeak for myself. I have been guilty of suppressing Like nope, let me just bottle this in, Let me bottle this in, Let me just take it, take it, take it. But sometimes when I let myself actually feel that emotion happy, sad, angry, whatever it could be there's a level of slowing down that comes into place.

Speaker 3: 28:36

And I believe that when you're able to label it, put a word on it, even kind of go back and look at the trends of maybe what you're feeling, you can understand what is impacting you, so you can also do a better job of operating in that space of feeling your emotion. So I offer that to anyone listening today Download the how we Feel app. It's free. It's a version of the Feelings Wheel where you have different emotions, but it's digital and they can check in with you throughout your day and you can start looking at trend lines. You might realize you know what. Maybe I never feel good in the morning because I realized I don't go to bed till 2 am.

Speaker 3: 29:05

Maybe a lot of my life would be different if I went to bed earlier. So that's just one example.

Speaker 2: 29:14

But thank you, bob. No, no, I love it, and sorry, now you make me have to say something else. On top of that is there's there's a concept that I learned from my friend, dr Andy Garrett, who's a clinical psychologist, just to this last point that you're making, which is called name it to tame it, name it to tame it. And we are emotional creatures, like we were created to be emotional, and that's okay. But when it gets to be too much, then it becomes, it can be problematic. So when we're feeling things and I love your feelings, will and the what's it called again Sorry, how we feel out.

Speaker 2: 29:48

How we feel out is, but when you can put it. I know what I'm feeling and you said something twice in this interview that I think is really one of the keyest keyest is that a word. Most key takeaways is slow down, slow down, slow down to engage with your colleagues, slow down to engage with yourself. And what am I feeling feeling? Why do I feel this way? How can I reassert my autonomy to my own feelings? Right, but takes time. It takes a little bit of training, like you. Like when these feeling wheels are an app to help you do that, John. We could keep going. I love talking to you. You're one of the best HR leaders that I've had the privilege to talk to. I appreciate you spending a few minutes today here with HR Chat. Thank you.

Speaker 3: 30:37

Thank you, bob, it's always a pleasure. No, okay.

Speaker 2: 30:39

And everyone who's listening. Thank you so much, Bill. Thank you again for allowing me to do this, and we hope everyone has a great day and we'll see you on the next episode. Bye-bye.

Speaker 4: 30:47

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