HRchat Podcast
Listen to the HRchat Podcast by HR Gazette to get insights and tips from HR leaders, influencers and tech experts. Topics covered include HR Tech, HR, AI, Leadership, Talent, Recruitment, Employee Engagement, Recognition, Wellness, DEI, and Company Culture.
Hosted by Bill Banham, Bob Goodwin, Pauline James, and other HR enthusiasts, the HRchat show publishes interviews with influencers, leaders, analysts, and those in the HR trenches 2-4 times each week.
The show is approaching 1000 episodes and past guests are from organizations including ADP, SAP, Ceridian, IBM, UPS, Deloitte Consulting LLP, Simon Sinek Inc, NASA, Gartner, SHRM, Government of Canada, Hacking HR, McLean & Company, UPS, Microsoft, Shopify, DisruptHR, McKinsey and Co, Virgin Pulse, Salesforce, Make-A-Wish Foundation, and Coca-Cola Beverages Company.
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Podcast Music Credit"Funky One"Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
HRchat Podcast
When Life Happens: Building a Better System for Employee Time Off with Mahima Chawla
From laptop-toting C-sections to spreadsheet nightmares, employee leave management has long been one of HR's most complex and frustrating challenges. Mahima Chawla, CEO and co-founder of Cocoon, is changing all that with a revolutionary approach to leave administration.
Mahima shares how a chance conversation sparked her journey into the leave management space. When a colleague described bringing her laptop to her C-section to file for state benefits, Mahima was shocked by the fragmented nature of employee leave – with different time allocations, multiple payment sources, and employees left to navigate complicated paperwork during already stressful life transitions. After speaking with dozens of HR leaders who universally described leave as "an absolute nightmare," she recognized an opportunity to transform this overlooked but critical function.
Cocoon tackles five major headaches for HR teams: navigating complex compliance regulations, managing multi-source payroll calculations, coordinating intricate workflows, improving employee experiences, and providing valuable benchmarking data. What makes their approach unique is their focus on automation – Mahima explains that 95% of leave management involves objective decisions perfectly suited for software handling, creating consistency while freeing HR professionals from administrative burdens.
Beyond streamlining processes, Cocoon is addressing financial barriers that often prevent employees from taking needed leave. By ensuring employees understand their payment sources and helping them access entitled funds, the platform supports both employers and workers during critical life moments. Looking ahead, Mahima envisions expanding Cocoon's capabilities across more industries and geographies, while predicting that the definition of "leave" itself will continue evolving beyond traditional categories to embrace more of life's realities.
Connect with Mahima on LinkedIn and follow Cocoon's page for updates on their appearances at major industry events including HR Transform and DMEC in 2025.
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Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's most downloaded and shared podcasts designed for HR pros, talent execs, tech enthusiasts and business leaders. For hundreds more episodes and what's new in the world of work, subscribe to the show, follow us on social media and visit HRGazettecom. And visit HRGazettecom.
Speaker 2:In this episode of the HR Chat Show, we talk about ways to make employee leave easier. Hello listeners, this is your host today, bill Bannam, and joining me on the show today is Mahima Charla, the CEO and co-founder over at Cocoon, a leave management platform that streamlines taking and managing employee leave. Mahima, welcome to the HR chat show today. It's great to have you on the pod.
Speaker 3:Thanks so much for having me Excited to be here.
Speaker 2:So, as we always do on this show, let's start by getting to know a little bit about you. Can you tell us about your career journey and what gets you up in the morning?
Speaker 3:I started my career actually as an options trader so very different world to what I do today and pretty early on I realized that I love the idea of building, I really like creating and I was very interested in products. So I started working at my first startup right after my trading job and that is where I learned everything that goes into a startup every role, from sales to product management to marketing and beyond, and that's what got me really interested in the idea of actually building a company someday. And so from that startup I actually was at Square. I led product for Square Capital for a couple of our business lending products over there, and AdSquare is actually where I learned about the world of leave and that's what set me off on my cocoon journey and building an experience that can really streamline the experience of leave for employers and employees.
Speaker 3:And in terms of what gets me up every day, I have to say it is my daughter. I have a two and a half. She quite literally gets me up, but then also she's the most fun and I love spending time with her. And so, yeah, I have a two and a half year old here in LA, so obviously spend a lot of time with my daughter and also a lot of cocoon. Things make me really excited and get me up every morning.
Speaker 2:Yesterday, when I was doing my homework ahead of this interview today, I think I read there was a particular instance that made you found cocoon. There's something that happened perhaps when you're working at a different company and they couldn't deal with it and you thought why is there not a solution for this, or along those lines. Can you fill me in?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so when I was working at Square and Product, I was working with legal counsel and this lady was talking to me about how she went on leave and how parental leave was her worst nightmare and how she was. She brought her laptop with her to her C-section to apply for her California EDD so essentially California state benefits and I remember at the time, knowing nothing about leave, and I kind of looked at her and said why would you take your laptop to a C-section about leave? And I kind of looked at her and said why would you take your laptop to a C-section, Don't you just put out of office, oh in your calendar, be gone for 16 weeks, get paid and come back? And she was like, no, that is not at all what leave is like. And she started to talk to me about how actually you have different time available to you. So there's some time that you get job protected federally and from the state, and then there's some time that comes from your employer. You're getting paid from three different sources. So you get private disability, you get state insurance for disability and bonding, Maybe there's employer pay and then you're actually in the middle of it all, navigating your time, your claims, trying to get paid trying to take care of a new baby, and that is actually what was the light bulb moment for Cocon of.
Speaker 3:Oh, I didn't realize leave was so complicated. I wonder how other companies handle leave. I wonder what other solutions there are for leave? Um, and that's what actually got me on just a research train for a couple of months of trying to understand what is the leave experience like for people across all different industries, um, and for all different leave types.
Speaker 3:So not just parental but also medical caregiver, um, and how do companies handle leave? So talk to a whole range of companies, from your Fortune 500 companies to your Squares and Stripes. For me. My co-founders were from two much smaller companies and learned that the experience every single HR leader we spoke to and we probably spoke to 50 to 100, would say leave is an absolute nightmare. It's the worst part of HR. Started to look at a lot of solutions on the market and realized that nobody had actually built a leave solution from the perspective of the end-to-end journey for every entity involved. So payroll person, employee going on leave, HR VP, manager and taking a software and design forward approach to that entire journey to automate it, to streamline it, to make it intuitive, and that's really how Cocoon was formed.
Speaker 2:Thanks for listening to this episode of the HR Chat Podcast. If you enjoy the audio content we produce, you'll love our articles on the HR Gazette. Learn more at hrgazettecom. And now back to the show. If you had to, if you were in a podcast interview situation and you had to offer the interviewer the top five HR headaches that Cocoon tackles and helps with, what would those be?
Speaker 3:HR team is actually just understanding what compliance applies to this leave. So how much time does this individual have, based on federal rules, based on state laws, and navigating a caregiver leave in Washington versus a parental leave in New York where there's all different requirements around time off and what qualifies that time off? So the first headache is really handling leave compliance for you as the employer. So you don't have to worry about becoming the expert in all these leave laws. You don't have to worry about the time tracking Cocoon actually sending compliance notices on a specific cadence with specific information. Cocoon takes care of that whole compliance bucket for you. So that is one huge piece for the employer employer. The other piece is actually payroll for the employer. So leave pay can be very complicated, especially if you have a paid policy as an employer. So you might be paying the individual, but they're also getting money from maybe the state. They're also getting money potentially from private disability and you're left there in spreadsheets trying to figure out well, based on what this employee makes in the pay period and based on our top off policy, what is it that I owe them to get them to that point based on all these other different sources? So compliance and pay for the employer are some really big pieces. The other piece is actually all of the workflow coordination. So, as an employee going on leave, you're going to have to do a lot of different things. For example, first you have to submit a leave request after you understand what you're eligible for, and then you might need to get a certification from a medical provider, you might need to file a certain claim, might need to upload certain information. So we and the employer also has to do certain tasks, and so we act as that coordinator between the employer and the employees so that all of the tasks are known, everyone knows what needs to happen when, and those those are coordinated amongst employer and employee, because there are many, many things that need to happen during a leave for it to go smoothly, and so we really handle that end-to-end coordination as well.
Speaker 3:So those are three of the pieces, and then I would say for the employee, focused on them, the person that's actually going through this big, pivotal life moment really needs the support during that process so that they can focus on what they're taking leave for. We really streamline the experience for the employees so they can very easily on what they're taking leave for. We really streamline the experience for the employees so they can very easily understand what is it that I'm eligible for, how will I get paid, what do I need to do? That makes it much simpler for the employee who's going on leave and takes away a lot of the stress, and then also reduces the amount of back and forth that happens between the employee and their HR team, and so that's a really big piece of leave.
Speaker 3:And then the final thing I'll say as a fifth one is really we like to think of ourselves as a source of knowledge and information to really empower employers and employees when they're taking their leave. But in this particular case, we like to aggregate all of our data that we have on what company policies are how do people use leave and provide that benchmarking information to employers to actually enable them to make decisions for their companies on their leave policies, which is another often black box, because it may be unclear what are our competitors doing, what's normal, what's the median, what's the average, what's the range? And so we like to give all of that information to our employer. We actually make it publicly available so anyone can access it.
Speaker 2:What's the data or what are the conversations you have in terms of that connection between reducing that stress? I'm not sure how we quantify reducing stress by percentage or something but also how that then has an effect on when those employees do return to work. How does that affect their performance levels? Ie, do you clearly hear all the time from the folks that you work with yeah, our folks are coming, our employees are coming back, they're more ready to go because they've not had to deal with these pressures yeah, so the data that we specifically publish around benchmarking is more around leave policies so that employers can make those decisions that the type of leave, the duration, the pay and so forth.
Speaker 3:And then, um, what you're asking about in terms of how to, what is performance like when an employee returns? What is the experience like? That is a lot of information that we get from our employer partners and employees. Just in feedback of Cocoon, I've been on leave two times once with Cocoon, once without Cocoon and my experience was night and day. I could focus on my baby or I could focus on my medical condition, because Cocoon was taking care or really the platform was taking care of a lot for me. And we get that really positive feedback from employers as well on how much less work they need to do to manage a leave and manage it well and how much better that experience ends up being for their employee on leave. And so we definitely see a very positive trend around the amount of operational burden that using cocoon relieves for the employer and the ease of experience for the employee who's going on leave.
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Speaker 2:Let's talk a bit about AI, because it seems to me you can't do an episode at the moment without talking about a bit of AI. But you guys have got lots of clever AI-fueled technology within what you do. Cocoon uses advanced technology like a proprietary rules engine and claims co-pilots. How has automation changed the landscape? How has it changed things when it comes to lead management? How is the job of the HR team and the experience of the employees so much easier because of that augmentation?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would say automation is key bread and butter to what we do at Cocoon. So really, when we break down a leave, 95% of a leave is objective. So, decision making around, what are the? Is this person eligible for this, this job, protected leave? Based on these eligibility criteria? It's a yes. No answer is what is the time being allocated to this? What is the compliance notice that needs to be sent on a certain date with certain information?
Speaker 3:All of these are things that are done really really well by software because it is a very consistent, reliable, efficient experience, and that's really where we've leveraged our automation is across anything that is objective decision-making, workflow automation and again, that is really 95%'ve leveraged. Our automation is across anything that is objective decision making, workflow automation and again, that is really 95% of what a leave is and there's a lot of it in there, and so it's really kind of automating that full experience. And then the 5% that is subjective might be around reviewing a medical certification to check if, to know if it has sufficient information, or to know if it's complete, or to request a second opinion. And the way that we approach that with automation is really automating that, providing the tools to the employer and the employee to enable them to either submit information, make a decision, trigger another ask or another workflow. And so we really kind of capture the subjectivity in the platform as well by giving you the tools to take any type of subjective action, whether you're the employer or the employee.
Speaker 2:So financial barriers often prevent employees from taking leave. Can you elaborate on how Cocoon plans to address that issue with tools like leave lending or pay top-ups?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So the way that I think about it is really, when someone goes on leave, their pay will change in some capacity. Either the amount that they're getting paid will change or maybe their pay sources could change, like again they could be getting paid from a different source, like insurance or the state. And so really the first thing that Cocoon does is ensure that every employee knows how they're getting paid and by whom and how much during their leave, so that they can make the best decision for themselves around what is the appropriate amount of time for me, where am I willing to take reduced pay, where am I not willing to take reduced pay? And then the next thing that we do is actually enable you to access that pay where you have it. So if you have pay that you're eligible for from the state, if you have pay that you're eligible for from private disability, we really augment that claims experience for you to get the claim filed with the right information on time to drive that process forward so that you can get approved and get the funds that you're entitled to from these different sources. And then kind of like third and fourth areas we really think about are again how do we leverage our benchmarking data to give that to employers to enable them to make decisions around their own pay top-up policies.
Speaker 3:Ultimately, an employer controls that decision around how much when you're on leave, for what duration do they pay, how much they pay 60%, 100% and so we really want to empower employers with that information so they can decide what is right for their business and what they want to do during an employee's leave and then in sort of a future state. We haven't done anything like this before, but we've talked about different ideas of could someone actually, if they don't have access to funds during their leave but they need to take a leave, or if they only have access to 60% but they need 100% for cashflow purposes, is there a world in which they can have essentially a short-term loan on that amount that can hold them over during that time where they're missing cash flow, to then be repaid upon their return? It's just more an ideation stage around. Ultimately, how do you enable people to take, how you enable people to afford to take leave if they don't have their normal full, regular pay during the course of their leave?
Speaker 2:You mentioned in one of your first answers that you guys work with companies of all different sizes. I wonder if there are any use cases that you're particularly proud of that you'd like to share with us today in terms of how Cocoon is helping to make to allow these companies to make more strategic decisions.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think with a lot of our, a lot of our employers, large and small, we do really hear about how that data has helped them make decisions for their companies around a more enhanced leave policy. We hear that feedback directly from an employee. I was at this company pre-cocoon and post-cocoon and I'm really grateful that they expanded their policy to cover these use cases to cover these use cases and now I get to benefit from that as an employee, and so I think there's a good number of examples of companies that we've worked with that have really leveraged that data to make adjustments to their own leave policies and employees that have directly benefited from that, which is always a really great thing for us to hear and see, in addition to what we're really trying to push day to day, which is that really easy experience for leave when you're going through a very stressful pivotal, easy experience for leave when you're going through a very stressful, pivotal moment in your life.
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Speaker 2:Okay, we are flying through this conversation today, I've got to say so. I'm going to throw a bigger question at you and you might need a bit more time for this one, I suspect. Looking ahead, what innovations or features are you most excited about in terms of the roadmap for Cocoon, new features and so on? And then, as part of the answer, how do you see the leave management industry evolving in the next three to five years?
Speaker 3:In terms of the things that I'm really excited about, I'm really excited for us to be able to support all different types of industries at Cocoon. So as we continue to build out our roadmap, we'll be building support for all different types of employees. So, whether you're a salaried employee or an hourly employee with a variable schedule, whatever type of work setup you may have, being able to support you is our goal. Ultimately, our mission is to empower every working person to care for what matters most, and so that really means getting to every employee in every industry and kind of expanding our footprint in that way, and so I think that's a really big, big development that's underway for Cocoon. And then I'm also really excited for the general just expansion of all of the different leave types.
Speaker 3:We support a lot of leave types today in the US, and how we think about, in our future, expanding support for leave types in a whole bunch of different geographies. So how we expand to Canada and how we expand to a lot of other countries that have the same complexities as the US does around leave compliance and different pay structures and things like that, and so I think there's a lot of really amazing potential to sort of be a new way of doing leave management we really have created. We really have taken this space and this problem and approached it in a pretty different way from the rest of the industry, and so there is a component of also kind of educating the market on how there is an easier, better way to do leave that can simplify it for you as the employer, that can make it a much better experience for your employee and really match a lot of the HR tools that exist today that are very software for it and are very designed for it, and leave has sort of been left on the back burner, and so I think all of our product is really designed through that lens of how do we make this a really excellent experience for the employer and the employee and take away the workload, because really an employee wants to focus on their leave and an HR team can use their time in much more strategic ways than becoming the leave expert in all of these different laws. So that's a lot of what I'm excited for.
Speaker 3:On the product side, leave used to be categorized very much as a parental leave or a medical leave, and really nothing else really used to constitute a reason that an employee may need to take a leave, and over the years, you've seen things employers add policies like caregiver policies. You've even seen states roll out laws that enable you to take a caregiver leave, insurance sources that give you pay when you're on a caregiver leave. You've seen bereavement leave be rolled out, and so my hypothesis is that the definition of what can constitute a leave will expand over time, because that is just the reality of life and the reality of the employees working at a company. There are a host of different reasons that might require you to take some time away to handle something in your life, to be able to come back with your full focus and attention, and so I think that that's one piece that we'll definitely see evolve over time and over the next five to 10 years.
Speaker 2:Very good. It's that time in the chat now when we begin to wrap up by finding out how we can stay connected. So let's start with events. I'm a big fan of industry events, events like SHRM and HR Tech and ATD and Unleash and others. Where can we expect to see Cocoon in 2025?
Speaker 3:Yeah, you can expect to see us in a lot of places. So we will be at HR Transform in March. We will be at DMEC in April, as well as later this year, I believe, in August. We do go to HR Tech as well A lot of the big, big HR conferences and compliance conferences we were at and then we're always hosting webinars and different things that you can keep in touch with on our website and our LinkedIn. So those are a lot of the places that we're going to be over the year.
Speaker 2:Okay, shout out to Enrique Rubio, who was recently back on the show, and the Transform team. I may go to that one that's in Vegas, and then the sham talent is in Nashville the following week, so I mean that potentially could involve a really cool road trip actually.
Speaker 3:Probably yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, very good, and then just finally for today. How can folks connect with you? So is that LinkedIn, email, instagram, the other socials? And, of course, how can they learn more about?
Speaker 3:the company, yeah, um, so on me for me, feel free to connect with me on linkedin. I'm just muhima chabla at cocoon on linkedin and um, also, following the cocoon page on linkedin is a really good way to keep up with everything we post about all the events that we're going to be at, all of the things that that we're hosting, whether in person or virtual, so definitely recommend following the Cocoon LinkedIn page as well.
Speaker 2:Marvelous. Well, that just leaves me to say for today thank you very much for being my guest.
Speaker 3:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:And listeners as always. Until next time, happy working.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show. If you enjoyed this episode, why not subscribe and listen to some of the hundreds of episodes published by HR Gazette and remember for what's new in the world of work? Subscribe to the show, follow us on social media and visit hrgazettecom.
