HRchat Podcast
Listen to the HRchat Podcast by HR Gazette to get insights and tips from HR leaders, influencers and tech experts. Topics covered include HR Tech, HR, AI, Leadership, Talent, Recruitment, Employee Engagement, Recognition, Wellness, DEI, and Company Culture.
Hosted by Bill Banham, Bob Goodwin, Pauline James, and other HR enthusiasts, the HRchat show publishes interviews with influencers, leaders, analysts, and those in the HR trenches 2-4 times each week.
The show is approaching 1000 episodes and past guests are from organizations including ADP, SAP, Ceridian, IBM, UPS, Deloitte Consulting LLP, Simon Sinek Inc, NASA, Gartner, SHRM, Government of Canada, Hacking HR, McLean & Company, UPS, Microsoft, Shopify, DisruptHR, McKinsey and Co, Virgin Pulse, Salesforce, Make-A-Wish Foundation, and Coca-Cola Beverages Company.
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Podcast Music Credit"Funky One"Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
HRchat Podcast
Episode 800 with Bill Banham and Chad Sowash
The landmark 800th episode of the HRchat Show welcomes Chad Sowash, the dynamic co-host of "HR's Most Dangerous Podcast" – the Chad and Cheese Show.
Chad has worked in the HR, Talent Acquisition, and HR Tech space for over 20 years consulting hundreds of Fortune 500 companies like AT&T, Lockheed Martin, and The Ford Motor Company. Chad is a former Army Infantry drill sergeant, who cut his teeth in online recruitment in the late 1990s. He went on to build Randstad's first military veteran hiring program. Today, you can find him behind the mic at events, and/or working hard to challenge the norm.
This celebration episode delivers a masterclass in straight talk about what's working, what's broken, and what's next in HR and talent acquisition.
Drawing from his career journey from Army infantry drill sergeant to HR tech innovator, Chad shares how military leadership training gave him a competitive edge in corporate environments. He pulls no punches discussing the need for HR to stop identifying as cost centers and start demonstrating real business impact. Chad emphasizes. "Nothing happens without human beings doing the jobs. We are the beating heart of every organization."
The conversation tackles veteran hiring initiatives, where Chad distinguishes between companies seeking actual outcomes versus those merely checking diversity boxes. This extends to his candid assessment of recent DEI program rollbacks.
Looking toward the future, Chad warns about "vaporware" in HR tech – over-promised technologies that can't deliver. He emphasizes the importance of bringing diverse voices into HR conversations, sharing how his podcast deliberately seeks experts from outside the industry to provide fresh perspectives on workforce challenges.
Bill Banham and Chad also discuss the best HR and Recruitment events in the calendar, including RecFest, UNLEASH, HR Tech and Transform.
Ready to revolutionize your approach to talent acquisition? This episode delivers actionable insights that challenge conventional thinking and inspire meaningful change.
Subscribe to the HRchat Podcast for more conversations that push boundaries and redefine what's possible in the world of work.
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The HRchat show has had 100,000s of downloads and is frequently listed as one of the most popular global podcasts for HR pros, Talent execs and leaders. It is ranked in the top ten in the world based on traffic, social media followers, domain authority & freshness. The podcast is also ranked as the Best Canadian HR Podcast by FeedSpot and one of the top 10% most popular shows by Listen Score.
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Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's most downloaded and shared podcasts designed for HR pros, talent execs, tech enthusiasts and business leaders. For hundreds more episodes and what's new in the world of work, subscribe to the show, follow us on social media and visit hrgazettecom and visit hrgazettecom.
Speaker 2:Welcome to a very special episode of the HR Chat Show. Hello listeners, this is your host today, bill Bannam. This is a special episode for a couple of reasons. Firstly, it is episode 800. Wow, if you'd said that to me that we'd get to 800 when we started this back in 2016, I would never have believed you. The second reason why it's a very special episode is that I've got a bit of HR royalty on the show with me today in the form of Chad Sobosh, half of the amazing chad and cheese duo.
Speaker 2:I'm sure lots of you amazing listeners will be familiar with the chad and cheese podcast. They do an amazing job. So who better really to join me on the podcast today? Chad has worked in the hr talent acquisition and hr tech space for over 20 years, consulting hundreds of Fortune 500 companies like AT&T and the Ford Motor Company. Chad is a former Army infantry drill sergeant who cut his teeth in online recruitment back in the late 90s with an outfit called Online Career Center, before it launched in 99 as Monstercom, online career center, before it launched in 99 as monstercom. Today you can find him behind the mic in advance and challenging the norm on hr's most dangerous podcast. I hope you enjoy this conversation, this very special conversation that I had with chad. Chad, it's my absolute pleasure and honor to have you on as a guest today. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3:Lies lies. Good to be here, bill. Good to be here.
Speaker 2:Okay. So, as we always do on this show, why don't you start by taking a minute or two and just telling our listeners a bit about yourself, what you get up to, what gets you up in the morning?
Speaker 3:Yeah, what gets me up in the morning is talking to this this damn microphone. I'm Chad Soash from the Chad and Cheese podcast. I've been in the HR tech slash HR recruiting industry since before Monster was Monster. Actually, I did a little time in the US military about 20 years in total but yeah, I mean being able to really focus today on being able to and everybody talks about this, and so I don't want this to sound, all you know, fancy and fuzzy and it's all about transforming what we've been doing in HR and recruiting into something that's more practical and outcomes focused, something that we haven't done over the last 20, 30 plus years. So that's where our focus is. Um, and you know, if you don't listen to the podcast, make sure you have your headphones on, because it's not safe for work or for kids other than that, have a go very good.
Speaker 2:Thank you very much. So, from drill sergeant to talent strategist, you've gone from leading troops in the army to challenging the status quo in the HR and recruitment tech world. Well done for that. How did your military experience Chad shape your leadership style and your approach to the recruiting industry?
Speaker 3:Mentioning that I was in the military for 20 years.
Speaker 3:There was a lot of cross-section of time where I was in the military and also a VP right, so I was able to go and do kind of like weekend stuff and then even also set away for years on end and then coming back into the corporate setting.
Speaker 3:So it was definitely interesting and very informing and helpful for me, because when I first started managing people, I really sucked at it and the big reason was I didn't have any schooling or education around leadership and management and those types of things as I started to gain rank in the military. To be able to keep that rank you have to go through these schools and pass these schools. So I was able to actually get all of this wonderful leadership education right, mentorship I mean I had a lot of people that I could actually I could call back on in the military and then also in the corporate side. But that gave me an edge over many of the others that are out there with whether I was an individual contributor or I was a manager and trying to push teams from a motivation standpoint. So, yeah, I mean they went well together, but I felt like I was cheating in some cases.
Speaker 2:On HR's Most Dangerous podcast. I'm a big fan, by the way. I should just say that You're known for shaking things up Well. You guys are doing a great job. What's one sacred cow in talent acquisition that you believe still needs to be put out to pass?
Speaker 3:Well, I think talent acquisition and HR have to stop calling themselves cost centers. It's the most ridiculous thing I think I've ever heard, and it's because most of them apparently don't know how business is done. And, as we take a look at and again, more sacred cows cost per hire time to hire. The C-suite doesn't give a shit about any of that stuff. They don't care, it means nothing to them. So what we have to do is we have to demonstrate how we actually impact the bottom line and being talent, whether it's on the talent acquisition, talent management side of the house, just the entire talent function.
Speaker 3:Nothing happens without human beings doing the jobs today. Right, we don't have robots in there doing stuff. We don't have algorithms taking over everything. So to be able to understand how you, as in talent, impact the business is the most important part of your job, and if you can't do that, you don't know, first and foremost, what the most vital positions are in your organization and you don't know what that costs the organization to actually have them open and not filled Fire yourself, your legacy, your ancient get the hell out, allow somebody to get in there that knows that we are the beating heart of every organization. Without talent acquisition, talent management. Without gaining talent, retaining talent, you don't have a company.
Speaker 4:Thanks for listening to this episode of the HR Chat Podcast. If you enjoy the audio content we produce, you'll love our articles on the HR Gazette. Learn more at HRGazettecom. And now back to the show.
Speaker 2:And you, of course, being a major force behind military veteran hiring initiatives. Chad what, what? Employers consistently get wrong when trying to recruit and retain veterans, and what should they be doing instead?
Speaker 3:Yeah, the hardest part about it is you see so many companies that will put money to it or they will say they love veterans, military, yada, yada, yada right, but it all comes down to outcomes and that was one of the things that really bothered me the most in working with major fortune 500 companies and literally the ones who really wanted to get outcomes versus the ones who wanted to just check a box and being able to identify which was which, because they both sounded so much the same right. So you know, for me it doesn't matter what cohort you're trying to go after. It should always be outcomes focused, not optics focused, because the optics will come with the outcomes. I mean period. So that, to me, was always the biggest frustration. It still is.
Speaker 2:Okay, I want to talk now about the National Labor Exchange. You played a key role in developing the National Labor Exchange. Can you share? Well, tell us a bit about what it is, and can you share that initiative and how it came together and why it's still relevant today?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So the US government shut down a site called America's Job Bank and that was a distribution mechanism for companies who were federal contractors, which means you got money from the federal government to be able to push those jobs down to the actual state job banks, right? So obviously in Europe you've got all these different countries. In the US we have all these different states. It's pretty much the same thing, for goodness sakes. The big difference is we all speak the same language over here. So being able to make those connections with newer technology, direct Employers Association I was, I was, it was my project working with the National Association of State Workforce Agencies, working with the National Association of State Workforce Agencies, going back and forth to Washington DC, all the different states, and being able to connect regular technology that we have today, the applicant tracking systems.
Speaker 3:Direct employers was used pretty much as the middleman and being able to pull the jobs and then distribute them to the appropriate job banks and then so to be able to really create a distribution mechanism way back then. Today it is relevant from the standpoint of distribution, but from a compliance standpoint, unfortunately, the current administration is ripping apart enforcement mechanisms. So I mean you can pretty much break the law and nobody's there to enforce it. So will that change in the next four years? I sure the hell hope so, but for the next, for the coming, the big focus is distribution and keeping the plumbing set and ready so that when you do have to comply from an enforcement standpoint that you're ready chad.
Speaker 2:You are a man with his finger on the hr tech landscape pulse of course, in fact it sounds creepy. That sounds creepy. No, you've got. You've got a knack for seeing the future of hr tech. Uh, what technologies or what trends are you watching closely right now that HR and talent leaders should be taking seriously?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, everybody's watching AI and agentic right.
Speaker 3:Everybody's talking about it, Everybody's watching it because there are so many companies that are out there that create vaporware on a daily basis, and what I mean by vaporware kids is it's over-promised technology, promising things that the technology cannot do, being able to and again at the flurry, the fast pace that tech is actually evolving, to be able to stay up with that.
Speaker 3:It's incredibly important, not just for us being able to obviously push out to all of our listeners, but it's incredibly important for every leader that's out there to, number one, at least get a surface idea of what the hell's going on and then, number two, have an expert on staff or at least somebody that you can call on to be able to better understand what's good for you, because we have never done due diligence well in this industry Never. Right Now, it's going to be more important than ever that you you perform due diligence in a very, very good way. If you don't, you're going to be stuck, and that's going to and that's not going to be good for many leaders in the space stuck and that's going to and that's not going to be good for many leaders in the space.
Speaker 2:Okay, switching focus now. Chad. Uh, let's talk dei. This, this is a topic that you're pretty passionate about. Uh, we have seen a lot of changes in in the us and elsewhere, uh, over the last little while, but let's focus on the us for the time being. Uh, what are your thoughts on the recent rollbacks from companies like meta, amazon and, of course and of course, within US governmental organizations when it comes to DEI?
Speaker 3:investments and programs. So, first off, anybody who's rolling it back. I mean they're pretty much telling you who they were in the first place. I mean it's character that shows. And again, when you're under fire, you know. When you come under fire, if you run, turn tail, drop your weapon and run, you know who that person is right Versus. The person actually stands up and does what they were trained to do or do what they said they would do. So many of these companies are literally just showing their true character.
Speaker 3:On the other side, though, I've had many companies come to me and say so what should we call this? What should we? Because they, they literally they want to continue to do what they've been doing, because it has been important, vital for most of their businesses to get really great talent, and my answer is just continue to do your job, the best way that you know how to do your job. Go into those could be black colleges, female colleges. None of that matters, right? Those could be black colleges, female colleges. None of that matters, right. What matters is you're going after the right types of people. If they're diverse populations, that is awesome. I love that, but you don't have to put a label on it. I feel like we have to put a label on everything so that we can wave a banner right and we can tell everybody oh, look, you know we have a DEI program.
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Speaker 2:Thanks and now back to the HR Chat Show. From one podcast dude to another. As we record this, we're about to release episode 800. I can't believe this. Wow, I've been doing this since before I was grey. You guys are making a huge splash in the space. I see you at all the cool events. What's your advice for HR tech vendors and thought leaders trying to cut through the noise? How can they be heard?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think the easiest thing right out of the gate is don't start a podcast.
Speaker 3:It drives me crazy. You have all of these companies who are starting their own podcast. It's like you have 800 episodes. We have close to 1,450. We this.
Speaker 3:Earlier in March we celebrated eight years. Are you thinking, do you think you can catch up to us? I mean seriously, do you think you can catch up to Bill and 800? The big key here is two things. First off, you're not going to catch up to Bill and 800. The big key here is two things. First off, you're not going to catch up. Second, the most important second is that we already have listeners. We already have people who trust us. Right, we already have people that understand that we're not biased or maybe, in some cases, that we are, because we are advisors to some startups. But we let you know that.
Speaker 3:The big difference is you can't start overnight to try to be an overnight sensation, right? Not everybody can be an influencer overnight, right? Unless you're like a Matt Damon or something like that that you already have. You know the star power at the end of the day. Start looking at it. Doesn't have to be Chad and cheese, for God's sakes. It can be any one of these podcasts that have been around for a very long time. Hitch your wagon to those podcasts and start to form narratives and discussions with those influencers. That's the big key.
Speaker 3:Do I care if you start a podcast? No, I don't care. I think it's funny to be quite frank because the amount that actually start and die over a three month time frame. I've seen guys start five or six podcasts and it's fail, fail, fail, fail, fail. And it's like look, focus what. Who will get your message out there best? Is it you? Probably not. Is it somebody else who actually has an audience? Is it like a JT O'Donnell who's actually joined the show? She has 1.4 million TikTok subscribers, right? Is she actually? You know your vector of type of marketing? I don't know, but I mean you can find those individuals trying to recreate the wheel just doesn't make sense big shout out to jt.
Speaker 2:Uh, we've had her on the show. She's awesome. Oh, yeah, she's amazing. You're absolutely right. I was reading just the other day uh, in 2025, there's 385 000 business related podcasts out there and, and I always say to you folks, if you're going to do one, don't expect any results for about two years. You know, in my experience from when we started the hr chat show in 2016, the first couple of years, this is an audio podcast.
Speaker 2:Um, so sorry listeners, uh, but yeah, but the numbers were kind of a bit like that and then suddenly they skyrocketed after we got a couple of particular guests in and they went from there you know, and I think in such a competitive landscape now, it's so much harder to be heard unless you've got something particularly unique to say, in which case is honing on that and make that your niche. Anyway, this is not an interview with me, it's an interview with you. You've had some amazing guests on your show over the years. I was listening to an episode, uh, just the other day actually, with ilia from banhack. Uh, he's great, great friend of the show. He's been involved with a bunch of events that we've done in the past. A proud canadian like myself even though I don't sound like it um, any any particular guests that you'd like to highlight who've made an impact on you over the years.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'd definitely say Ilya, but he was also joined by Professor Zeke Hernandez from the Wharton School of Business, and Zeke has studied immigration for about 30 years. Right, so for me to be able to get individuals like that on the podcast. And we get economists. Obviously. We've had, you know, the EOC commissioner at the time he was on on many times. He's been on stages with us all over the world.
Speaker 3:To me, lord Way in in at RecFest, where we actually were able to speak with a gentleman from the House of Lords around AI and how it's going to impact the UK. Those are the types of conversations that actually move me. We have tons of incredibly smart people in this space already and that's great, but what I want to be able to find are the people that are outside this space who understand how you know workforce economics actually work right, how immigration and all the different types of impacts that actually happen there. Marketing we had Cindy Gallop, who's a legend in marketing, on the podcast for two shows. So trying to bring new voices in, uh, and to be able to I mean, they're already amplified because they're pretty big voices as it is, but these are voices that we generally don't hear in our space that we should so what's your process when you guys are looking for for guests?
Speaker 2:is it we are, we are, we only want the top, top subject matter experts. Are you guys open to giving new voices an opportunity to be on the show? Like what? What's your? What's your approach? For me, uh, it's a mixture of going through lists of top 100 influences of the year, um, and all the and all the, the uh, inbound inquiries we get and a few other ways, events and things we we're out that often leads new speakers. What do you guys do?
Speaker 3:Research is the big key. We already get anywhere from 10 to 20 requests a day to be on the show, and I have to turn down 99% of them because we need something that's more out of the box, and that's, I said outside the box is what I should say. What we will do is what I really like to take a look at current issues that everybody's talking about right, that everybody's talking about and then spin them from a different angle. How do you do that? You find experts that are outside of our space who understand that. So, from my standpoint, the research is much different. It's more topical, it's more focused on issues, on hard-hitting issues and trying to find individuals who are a hell of a lot smarter than I am to talk to us about what the prospective outcomes or solutions could be.
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Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean for me. I mean, one of the best things about my job is I get to listen and learn. Yeah, exactly, you know, you've got all these clever people who've been studying things for years, got PhDs and all the rest of it, and you sit there and you try to absorb it and your job becomes trying to create intelligent questions.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've got. So I have a second podcast and it's fun. It's called Talent Chasing and that is with a retired major league baseball player who was also a scout and also a filmmaker from the Netherlands. So for me that one is fun because in this segment I've been in this segment for 25 years, right, so I feel like one of the older guys, for God's sakes. I hate saying that, but that's what I feel like. Now on that podcast, I feel like a 12 year old kid where I'm sitting there listening to Dusty Baker who was, you know, in in the big leagues for like 30 plus years, talking about how he and Hank Aaron and I mean just all of these really cool stories. So I get exactly what you're talking about. That's also what really drives me to get a lot of these new voices in, really drives me to get a lot of these new voices in um and and we and we go big, uh, sometimes we can't get the big ones, but it doesn't mean you stop trying.
Speaker 2:And one way that you guys amplify all the cool things that you do is you're at all of the cool events. I saw you at a couple of the cool events last year. Um, here we are recording this at the end of March 2025. We've got Sherm coming up, we've got ATD coming up, we've just had Transform. We've got HR Tech on the horizon later this year. What events can our listeners expect to see you guys at this year?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's funny because last year we did 12 events. I think we actually did more than 12 events. A few of those were, I guess you could say, more vendor focused, because they have their own specific events themselves and have their clients come in, and those, to me, are really interesting because you get you get a chance to talk to the practitioners. The actual users of these technologies Love those, and you get more of a chance to do that in those settings than you do Transform or HR Tech or what have you Transform? Amazing. We were at Transform, we're going to be at Unleash America, we'll be obviously at RecFest in Nebworth where we will be emceeing the Disrupt Stage, recfest in Nashville, and then HR Tech and I'm sure we'll have some more kind of like sprinkled in there. But we tried to back off this year to about six events just because last year we ran ourselves ragged. I did get diamond status, but other than that I just think we should just back off a little bit uh, I just think we should just back off a little bit.
Speaker 2:So I'm I'm much less focused on the recruitment side than you guys are, for many obvious reasons. However, the idea of wreck fest in nashville, man, that does appeal to me.
Speaker 3:Oh, I love, I love nashville and yeah, yeah and anybody who hasn't been to wreck fest, uh, whether it's in at nebworth park in the uk or it's in it's in nashville uh, it's. It's an outside festival right with circus tents, uh, and it's literally. It feels like the lalapalooza of recruiting, because it is more recruiting, recruiting focused um, but you know it's a blast during the day and and then you've got party at night.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, I might need to venture to one of these Before we wrap up for today. Chad, how can our listeners connect with you and, of course, how can they listen to your show?
Speaker 3:Yeah, just go to. I'm the only Chad Soash on LinkedIn, so go ahead and connect with me on LinkedIn. And yeah, you go to chadcheesecom or talentchasingcom and or let's just say that a couple of podcasts you can check out. You can find them wherever you listen to podcasts. The Chad and Cheese does have a pretty magnificent YouTube channel, though, so if you like some YouTube videos, you can go to YouTube and just look for the Chad and Cheese podcast.
Speaker 2:Rock and roll, and there will, of course, listeners be linked in the show notes. That just leads me to say for today, chad you, royalty of the HR recruitment world. Thank you very much, sir, for being my guest. I appreciate it. Thanks, thanks, bill, and listeners, as always, until next time, happy working.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show. If you enjoyed this episode, why not subscribe and listen to some of the hundreds of episodes published by HR Gazette and remember for what's new in the world of work? Subscribe to the show, follow us on social media and visit HRGazettecom.
