HRchat Podcast
Listen to the HRchat Podcast by HR Gazette to get insights and tips from HR leaders, influencers and tech experts. Topics covered include HR Tech, HR, AI, Leadership, Talent, Recruitment, Employee Engagement, Recognition, Wellness, DEI, and Company Culture.
Hosted by Bill Banham, Bob Goodwin, Pauline James, and other HR enthusiasts, the HRchat show publishes interviews with influencers, leaders, analysts, and those in the HR trenches 2-4 times each week.
The show is approaching 1000 episodes and past guests are from organizations including ADP, SAP, Ceridian, IBM, UPS, Deloitte Consulting LLP, Simon Sinek Inc, NASA, Gartner, SHRM, Government of Canada, Hacking HR, McLean & Company, UPS, Microsoft, Shopify, DisruptHR, McKinsey and Co, Virgin Pulse, Salesforce, Make-A-Wish Foundation, and Coca-Cola Beverages Company.
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Podcast Music Credit"Funky One"Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
HRchat Podcast
Digital Identity in the Age of AI with Joelle Smith, First Advantage
Your next hire could be a deepfake. Identity fraud in employment has exploded, with a 30% increase in 2025 alone and experts predicting one in four candidates will use some form of deepfake technology by 2028. This isn't just resume padding—it's a sophisticated attack on your organization.
Joelle Smith, President of First Advantage Corporation, reveals how the convergence of massive data breaches, advanced AI, and remote work has created a perfect storm for employment fraud. Foreign actors aren't just seeking multiple paychecks; they're targeting something far more valuable: day-one access to your organization's internal systems and data. These threats transcend industries and borders, affecting companies of all sizes.
The traditional hiring approach—taking candidates at their word before conducting background checks—creates a dangerous vulnerability. Joelle explains how "identity-first" verification not only blocks fraudulent candidates but improves the accuracy of background screening, with companies seeing a 17% increase in criminal record detection when identity verification comes first. First Advantage's sophisticated system triangulates technology, proprietary data, and personal knowledge verification to distinguish legitimate candidates from increasingly convincing fakes.
What makes this discussion particularly valuable is the balance between security and candidate experience. The goal isn't just blocking bad actors but creating streamlined processes for legitimate candidates. As Joelle emphasizes, "Our job is to help organizations find great talent and retain them."
Want to protect your organization from the rising tide of identity fraud? Connect with Joelle on LinkedIn or visit FADV.com to explore how identity verification can strengthen your hiring process. The future of secure hiring starts with knowing exactly who you're bringing on board.
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Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's most downloaded and shared podcasts designed for HR pros, talent execs, tech enthusiasts and business leaders. For hundreds more episodes and what's new in the world of work, subscribe to the show, follow us on social media and visit hrgazettecom. And visit hrgazettecom.
Speaker 2:Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show. Hello listeners, this is your host today, bill Bannam, and in this episode we're going to look at identity-first solutions for employers, and joining me on the show to shed light on this topic is none other than Joel Smith, president over at First Advantage Corporation, a leading provider of global software and data in the HR tech industry.
Speaker 2:Hey Joelle how are you today, hey Bill? I'm doing well. So, beyond my wee introduction just a moment ago, joelle, why don't you take a couple of minutes? Tell our listeners all about yourself, your career background, what do you get up to today and what gets you up in the morning?
Speaker 3:Oh, love it. Okay, I'm happy to do that. So, as you mentioned, I'm with First Advantage and I'm the president here right now. I have the privilege of working with product and data and technology and manage all of those exciting innovations and then also our go-to-market team. So that is the sales, customer success, marketing and RevOps organization and we are a publicly traded organization and we are about 1.5 billion in revenue.
Speaker 2:Okay. And what gets you up in the morning, what excites you, what makes you leap out of bed and say today's going to be my day?
Speaker 3:boy. Well, I mean other than the lovely sun when it's finally out. Um, no, I mean I love tech. Uh, it's it what grew me. I grew up on tech. I had a great career doing tech consulting with, you know, large enterprises. I've saw, I've seen every problem under the sun and solving the problems, uh, gets me very excited. And I also really like gardening because that's kind of fun too. So growing tech solutions and, I guess, growing vegetables.
Speaker 2:I think we've just found the title for this episode there you go. Growing tech solutions and growing vegetables. Okay, so can you provide a bit of an overview of First Advantage and the software and the solutions that your customers partner with you for? Give us the, give us the boilerplate, and then after that we're going to break down into some of the issues that you guys help solve.
Speaker 3:Sure, yeah, absolutely. It's kind of broken into three main components of what really happens in the pre and post hire process of bringing kind of employees into an organization. Bread and butter has been background screening, so criminal checks and all of that sort of thing. Verifications, which is employment and education, and then the final big one that we have been growing and are here to talk about, which is digital identity.
Speaker 3:So identity verification really understanding who is the person that you're bringing on board. We've been around for a really long time about 40 years but we have really expanded into really more of a product and tech organization solving some of the problems for large enterprises. That's our main focus area of where we go and who we partner with to solve some of the challenges in hiring and bringing on and maintaining a great talent pool at your organization.
Speaker 2:Thanks for listening to this episode of the HR Chat Podcast. If you enjoy the audio content we produce, you'll love our articles on the HR Gazette. Learn more at hrgazettecom. And now back to the show. What are some examples, then, of secure, scalable and seamless identity-first solutions that First Advantage provides, solutions that First Advantage provides.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. So we have a couple of them. We have. We target multiple markets across the world because digital identity is a challenge that we have seen rise in the last five years pretty significantly in the employment space. So I think digital identity has been around well, I know it's been around for a very long time, but primarily in the know, your customer space, like the KYC, where you know anti-money laundering if somebody wants to open an account online, if they are, you know, going to gamble or if they're going to open a bank account.
Speaker 3:What has really transcended the market that is something that our products are really targeting is what we call the KYP space, so knowing your people, and this is in the full employment context.
Speaker 3:So when you think about the identity fraud that could potentially happen when you open a bank account, obviously that's pretty serious and that's something regarding a personal information. When you're talking about employees, you've now switched from a consumer to a business, and so when you're talking about trying to identify who that person is are they, you know one, who they say they are, but then two eligible and able to work, you know in the country of which they're being hired and then applying all of the employment laws and compliance, you know, to that and then applying all of the employment laws and compliance to that and then protecting the employer brand. So it's really important to kind of distinguish between the two. So first advantage is products really focus on the KYP market, which is really specific to the employment space, and that's the area where our products are focused and that's really in the beginning of the hiring phase, as well as the background screening phase and then even post-hire and can you explain why identity is considered an essential first step in the hiring process?
Speaker 2:what are some of those obstacles today when it comes to people maybe not being who they say they are? Yeah, yeah, I think. I think lots of opportunities to do that these days give, give us, give us an overview of what the issue is there and why it's important yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 3:There's been a huge rise in in this, what we call identity fraud, primarily driven by two catalysts. Uh, one first was really a lot of the data breaches that happened in the late teens and early 20s. A lot of social security numbers were, you know, exfiltrated from organizations and that created the opportunity for bad actors to create what we call synthetic identities. So that was catalyst kind of number one. And then the second one really has risen around some of the bad actors that are targeting from other kind of foreign states.
Speaker 3:So we've seen a lot of issues around folks impersonating, you know, people from North Korea, impersonating, as you know, US employees and people who are trying to get jobs, and they're doing that one to try to make money. Right, they want multiple jobs, they want to be able to, but two and this is the one that has companies most concerned it's actually they're trying to get the credentials to the organization. So upon day one you get your credentials, your laptop and all the good things that come with getting a new job, but you also get access, and you get access to internal company information data and that's worth a lot of money. So we have seen that identity fraud really rise in that type of context over the last couple of years, and that's an area where our products are focused on solving for some of our customers.
Speaker 2:Okay, so it's really important to have technology that can help with all of these issues. If someone's applying for a job and it's only technology that's assessing their credentials, maybe things can be missed. Maybe there's an important human element that needs to be included too. How do you see the balance between automation and human oversight evolving in the identity verification process, particularly as AI capabilities continue to advance?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, ai has also been a huge catalyst here, because AI can be used for good and it can also be used for bad. So we are seeing a lot of deep fakes being created during either video interviews or around people just impersonating other people. So it's the synthetic fraud which is creating an identity with a combination of real and false data, and then the deep fakes on top of it, which is really if it's somebody's voice like maybe it's me talking, maybe it's not, it actually is, but that's okay and also videos, and so they're trying to combat that. So AI has created the ability for a lot of these bad actors to easily fabricate an identity, documents, all of the things necessary to be able to get a job. And then you have the rise of remote work and it's kind of a perfect storm for this to really kind of generate challenges for the company.
Speaker 3:But the good news is, ai can also solve these problems and that's really where our products focus. So we have the ability to triangulate technology, which is kind of our bread and butter data, which we also have because we have a large amount of proprietary data based on what we do for a living, which we also have because we have a large amount of proprietary data based on what we do for a living, and then the actual knowledge that's within the person's brain or wallet, whether from an ID or from kind of just knowing their business and their person. So triangulating all those things together is really what makes our technology able to solve a lot of the problems that our organizations and customers are experiencing today with the rise of AI. Ai is good and bad in certain instances.
Speaker 2:And just for the record, listeners, I would like to reassure you that all of our guests that I am aware of are real people. Maybe that will change in the future as things evolve, but no, I like to talk to real people, okay. What role, joelle, does employee education and internal or company culture play in in helping clients adapt to identity first approaches in their hiring practices?
Speaker 3:yeah, absolutely, education is key, you know. I mean, if you think about it, ai, really gen AI in particular, has only been around for a couple of years. Ai itself, obviously, with machine learning and some of those original things, have been around for much longer. But the rise of gen AI, making it easily accessible for the average person, the average employee, the average individual, is really what has launched a lot of these challenges, because it just makes it easier. You don't have to know the model, you don't have to train it, it's already there and available.
Speaker 3:So, educating yourself and educating your company on what it means, what you need to look out for to be able to protect yourself, your fellow employees, your brand, that's the part that's most, most important, I think, for organizations to really think about, and there's plenty of resources out there. We have resources all over our website, but also there's tons of research on it. Right now, gartner's been doing research, transunion and Trust. There's so many different groups out there that are really trying to figure out what's going on in this KYP space, because it is fairly new, and that's something that employers should be asking any of your onboarding and postboarding vendors about, because if you're not, your competitors and peer groups are and the bad actors are going to find their way to the place that is not focused on it, because they are focused on all industries in in all regions across the globe. So, unfortunately, nobody is immune to this new rising challenge that that folks are experiencing and this issue isn't going to go away right, it's just going to get.
Speaker 2:It's just going to get more and more significant. What are the numbers around that can? Can you can maybe share where we're at in 2025 compared to where we were last year in terms of folks who are trying to game the system?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely so, in 2025, we've seen a 30% rise in identity fraud and synthetic identity fraud just in 2025 alone, and some of the Gartner research that just recently came out predicts that one in four candidates will be will have a fake, a deep fake of some kind, by 2028. That's, you know, 25 percent of the workforce being synthetic or deep fake fraud, and so if you're hiring anybody in the market, you really do need to keep those things in mind. This is publicly available research and it is a real and growing problem that we can combat, but it really does take some advanced thinking and, as you mentioned earlier, education on our part.
Speaker 2:Okay, regular listeners of this show will know that I am not scared of a shameless plug for the show. It's been a while since we've had someone on from Gartner, but I would encourage you to check out the episode with Brian Cropp, who was, at the time, group Vice President and Chief of HR Research over at Gartner. It was a very interesting chat, so do check that one out, listeners, and if you don't know Brian, you should totally uh get to know him, joel, he's a lovely child anyway. Continuing through, uh, looking ahead, uh, let's talk about your, let's talk about your roadmap. Now, what innovations or investments are on the horizon for first advantage that you believe will reshape how companies approach hiring and background checks in the next one, two, three, five years? What's on the horizon for you guys that you're particularly excited about?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely Well, we're very focused on identity first. We believe that that needs to be part of the background check for, like now as well as all future. It's a little unknown fact that traditionally HR organizations would take the you know good faith word of the candidate, that their name and their address and all of that is legitimate, and then that's the information that gets passed on to be able to run the checks and then get to hiring. And so it is really important that you start with identity, make sure the person is who they say they are. You use that information for the background check.
Speaker 3:We've actually seen an increase in criminal hits that are found by 17 percent when people use identity, because you can't fake your, your license, your biometric, your facial rec, fake your license, your biometric, your facial rec, and you can't change the data once it's in there. So you're going to run a check on the actual information of that individual and you're going to find that data that they're obviously trying to hide if they have done something. So it makes it really easy for the good actors to get through and not easy for the bad actors. So our innovation is really focused on that identity first, and then we're really just trying to keep up with the speed of that.
Speaker 3:This is a constantly evolving market and constantly evolving change. That's happened, and so we have an innovation lab that's constantly testing different prototypes, different language models, different AI, to make sure that we're where we need to be, at the forefront of this, to help our customers combat this challenge, but also find great people. You know we kind of expect all the negative about this but, like, our job is to help organizations find great talent and retain them, so it's really important that you also make it easy for the good folks to get through and make it great experience so that they want to stay at your organization longer.
Speaker 2:Just one thing that you mentioned there and this is just amusing, so I'm not necessarily looking for an answer, but I wonder how good the facial recognition technology is. Could it, for example, could it separate out and identify an identical twin from another one? Are there limits to what that technology can do right now?
Speaker 3:from another one, or are there limits to what that technology can do right now? Uh, we have not found any. Um, it's actually very sophisticated in what it's looking for and how it operates, but it's a combination of things. So you do have the facial rack, you have a liveness detection which basically says the picture of a picture, is it, you know, is it a really live person? But then it complements with the identity like card itself.
Speaker 3:So whether it's a license, a driver's license or a passport, it actually connects the data in the mag strip on the back as well as the front of the card, together with the biometric and then a whole host of other attributes that are checked during the identity. So, even if there is a little bit of a question on the facial rec there's so many other parameters, but we haven't seen it get spooked yet. It's got a very high accuracy rate, so it's pretty good. We've been happy with it and we've been able to catch quite a few folks that you know could have prevented or could have had a lot of challenges with the customers if they got hired, but thankfully they did.
Speaker 2:So, in conclusion, what what joe was saying is we got this.
Speaker 3:Guys, don't worry, we got this so I don't know, I mean we're smart people but it's, it's tough to stay ahead. But you know we have, we have major r&d investment to be able to do this and you have to like it's. It's actually really hard to kind of stay at the pace very good, you guys are doing an excellent job.
Speaker 2:Uh, just finally for today. How can our listeners connect with you? So is that linkedin? Uh, do you want to share your email address? Are you all over the social, such as tiktok and instagram and things? And, of course, how can they learn more about First Advantage?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. So definitely LinkedIn is the best way to get me, and then we'd love, you know, feel free to connect and then First Advantage. You know great website FADBcom. We have tons of information in there about digital identity, about verifications, all that good stuff. Or you can chat with Faye on our site. She'll help you navigate to any place that you want to go.
Speaker 2:Excellent. Well, that just leaves me to say for this particular interview, although I will be hounding you to come back on, but for this particular interview. Joelle Smith, thank you very much for being my guest.
Speaker 3:Bill, thanks so much for having me. This was great. Really appreciate it.
Speaker 2:And listeners as always, until next time. Happy working time happy working.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show. If you enjoyed this episode, why not subscribe and listen to some of the hundreds of episodes published by HR Gazette and remember for what's new in the world of work. Subscribe to the show, follow us on social media and visit hrgazettecom.
