AI, Fairness, and the Future of HR with Lindsay Clayborne, Cardata

How can HR leaders use AI and data-driven insights to make work fairer, more engaging, and more efficient — without adding complexity or risk?

In this episode of the HRchat Podcast, host Bill Banham welcomes back Lindsay Clayborne, Chief of Staff at Cardata, the fully managed vehicle reimbursement partner helping companies modernize outdated car allowance programs with smarter, fairer, and IRS-compliant solutions.

Last time, Bill and Lindsay explored the basics of why a strong vehicle reimbursement program matters to both employees and employers. This time, they go a step further — looking at how HR and People leaders can use AI and automation to free up time, improve compliance, and empower teams to focus on the work that really matters.

Lindsay reflects on her own evolution into a Chief of Staff role, sharing how her lens has widened from people operations to company-wide clarity, planning, and performance. That experience shapes a broader conversation around how HR can leverage AI to streamline processes, make data actionable, and strengthen its voice in strategic business decisions.

Together, they explore:

• How AI reduces HR admin overload, freeing up time for judgment, coaching, and culture-building
• The evolution of vehicle reimbursement programs — from mileage tracking to integrated, automated systems that reveal valuable patterns
• Why data centralization and cross-system integration are key to eliminating friction and improving workforce insights
• How to design AI guardrails to ensure safe, ethical, and compliant adoption across teams
• The growing importance of curiosity, adaptability, and critical thinking in the age of AI

The conversation also tackles a challenge many HR teams face: fear of AI. Lindsay and Bill discuss practical ways to build trust and confidence — defining sensitive data by function, educating teams on safe use, and setting clear policies that encourage experimentation without risk.

Tune in for real-world insights on how HR can harness AI to boost fairness, retention, and impact — and become a smarter, more strategic business partner.

Learn more about Cardata: cardata.co

Chapters

• 0:03 Welcome And Guest Reintroduction
• 1:04 New Chief Of Staff Role
• 3:21 Trends In Vehicle Reimbursement
• 5:19 Pivot To AI In The Workplace
• 6:55 Job Enrichment And Upskilling
• 8:29 Partnering With AI, Not Replacing
• 12:00 Hiring For Curiosity And Critical Thinking
• 14:34 Helping Reluctant Adopters Feel Safe
• 16:32 Balancing Automation And Empathy
• 19:48 Using AI To Elevate HR’s Voice
• 21:17 Five-Year Outlook For HR And AI
• 22:59 How To Connect With Lindsay And Cardata
• 24:35 Closing And Subscribe CTA

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:03

Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's most downloaded and shared podcasts designed for HR pros, talented decks, tech enthusiasts, and business leaders. For hundreds more episodes and what's new in the world of work, subscribe to the show, follow us on social media, and visit hrgazette.com.

SPEAKER_03: 0:27

Lindsay Claiborne, my friend, welcome back to the HR Chat Show. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_02: 0:32

I am so excited to be here, Bill. I am doing so well. And as we were just saying before the before we started recording here, it's been a long time.

SPEAKER_03: 0:43

It's been too long. And uh we I was just sharing with you before we hit record, it's been way too long since I was actually in Toronto. Um despite that being on my LinkedIn profile. Um I need to get back over and we need to get together in person. But for today, we're gonna catch up online and then we're gonna share this wonderful content with the masses. Firstly, Lindsay. Um it's been about a year since we recorded with each other last time. And since then, I understand that you are climbing that corporate ladder. Congratulations on the promotion to Chief of Star. How does your new role differ from your previous position at Card Data as as director of people and culture?

SPEAKER_02: 1:25

Yeah, great question. So I am still overseeing our people and culture function, which is great. I mean, that's you know, that's my my first love is uh the people and culture side of things. And in this role, it's really uh an expanded role that is all about helping to bring uh clarity, streamline processes, um faster decision making, really being a force multiplier uh across all of our functions. And as I've learned, uh the Chief of Staff Role looks very different in every single company. And uh it evolves over time, even in the company that you're in. So uh initially it was really helping to set the foundation around our OKR planning, our quarterly planning, our annual planning, helping with budgeting, and then start to shift into how do I actually help solve problems across the organization and uh help ask the right questions uh or just ask questions in general to really get to the root cause of things so that we're solving the root cause of them, not necessarily the symptoms. And so uh obviously we have to do that in people and culture, but we can do it in any area of the business. And so it's been really great to get to get exposure to the other areas, and I think in turn it's allowed me and helped me be a better people and culture leader as well.

SPEAKER_03: 2:58

Very good, very good. Well, uh, I suspect also that Car Data knew that unless they keep promoting you, um, they may lose their best asset. So well done, Car Data, for making that decision. Um say, since since we last spoke as well, I'd I'd love to hear from you but what new trends are you seeing in how organizations are managing vehicle reimbursement programs?

SPEAKER_02: 3:21

One of the main themes that we've seen is that companies are really looking to have a more comprehensive view of their mobile workforce. And what I mean by that is it's it's less about just making sure we capture the miles and we do the reimbursement and people are compliant with the not only the uh legal requirements of the programs, but uh also the internal company policies. But they're wanting to have a more comprehensive view of the driver's driving behavior, the uh training that they're offering. Um they also uh so they want that more comprehensive view to make sure that they're managing all aspects of what is involved in having a mobile workforce. Um, and then the second thing, which is probably not unique to vehicle reimbursement and just uh HR teams more broadly, is that they want to have a more streamlined, integrated, and automated uh process for completing vehicle reimbursement. And so we're seeing people wanting to uh be able to uh automate the mileage capture, wanting to integrate it with their existing systems, wanting to also bring all of their uh drivers under one umbrella. So even if they're on different programs, keeping it all under one uh provider instead of having it separated across different systems and different uh teams, even within the company, having it under one umbrella makes it really centralized and much easier to manage.

SPEAKER_00: 5:03

Thanks for listening to this episode of the HR Chat Podcast. If you enjoy the audio content we produce, you'll love our articles on the HR Gazette. Learn more at hrgazette.com. And now back to the show.

SPEAKER_03: 5:19

Okay, very, very good. So uh we're now going to move to the main focus uh of today's conversation. And it's it's this thing, listeners, that you may or may not have heard of. It's called artificial intelligence. Um I think I think it's been in the news recently. Um Lindsay, what when you think about AI in the workplace, what what excites you the most as an HR leader?

SPEAKER_02: 5:46

It's I mean, what a time to be going through, getting the opportunity to go through this transformation of bringing not only AI expanding and its capabilities, excuse me, its capabilities, its applications, but uh really the foothold it's starting to take within organizations. And so uh what excites me about it is a couple things. One is is the job enrichment that it's kind of naturally creating for people, you know, being able to automate things that are tedious or repetitive, or uh, you know, they previously required someone to do it, even if it was not the most mentally stimulating thing. And so uh the natural enrichment that it's giving people to be able to automate those things, focus on the work that you know they actually enjoy. It pushes them to use their creative thinking, their critical thinking. So, kind of the natural job enrichment that it's creating, uh the opportunities for upskilling that uh and you know, making people more valuable in their careers by having more skills, um, because they have to not only know uh because those things are being automated, they have to be able to do more things, but that are a higher level that AI can't do. Um, it's also they also have to know how to interact with these things. They have to know how to properly ask at things and interpret the responses and think critically about the responses. So there's also just a natural upscaling that's happening. And the last thing that's exciting about it is the experience of going through a period of workplace transformation. I mean, the last big time this happened was when the internet really started to come into the workplace. And, you know, most of um, you know, I think a lot of people were either just starting out their careers or maybe they they hadn't started working yet. So getting to go through that is kind of a first time uh in a generation. And um, so it's that's exciting too, to be able to go through the experience and one day be able to look back and say, well, I remember when AI first came into the workplace. And uh so I think just the natural experience it brings for people uh will be valuable later, later on down the line when the next transformation happens.

SPEAKER_03: 8:09

I love your positivity. Um I'm just coming on the back of just a couple of days ago reading the AI 2027 reports. So I'm I'm feeling a little bit uh hesitant about the future, you know, but uh uh I I that's just one possible scenario. Let's let's go with your more optimistic one. Okay Although uh uh just being serious for a moment, there there are a lot of folks in the workforce who are a bit worried that AI is uh going to completely replace their jobs, you know, not just augment functions, but completely uh replace their jobs. Uh if we look at, for example, the functions of sourcing and recruitment, a lot of those positions that were there two years ago, they aren't really there anymore as as they were, and lots of people are no longer in those roles. Uh there's there's a lot of talk about AI being a disruptor, of course. From your perspective, therefore, how how can HR make sure that AI is more of a partner than a replacement?

SPEAKER_02: 9:05

Mm-hmm. Great question. When I think of uh just partnership more broadly, it's that partnership when you're working, let's say, with another person is is or with another company or whatever maybe you have some kind of common goal uh that you're working towards. And each of you are bringing a strength to the table that is going to contribute to you being able to be able to achieve, achieve that goal. And so I think when we think of AI being more of a partner, it's it's we have to know what are the strengths that it's bringing and what are the strengths that we're bringing. Uh and I think what that means is like what recognizing what the limitations of AI are, you know, it it from a strengths perspective, you know, it can aggregate huge volumes of data very quickly, it can analyze huge volumes of data very quickly. Uh, it can um take a uh a natural language query and be able to interpret it in a way that, you know, previous search engines and and search functions, you know, couldn't that would require us to take uh more time to be able to actually interpret it. So there's a ton of strengths, but I mean what it can't do is bring the context. It can't bring the uh real world um nuance that that happens. Um and so I think understanding what its strengths and what its limitations are, and then applying it appropriately. I I mean, I don't know about you, but every day I see on LinkedIn, you know, this company, you know, cut 85% of its worst worse and replaced it in AI. Like I interpret that as, well, that's just the pendulum swinging pretty far, and eventually we're gonna see, you know, some of those, some of those companies be hiring those people back. And I I think that uh that's uh obviously a huge disruption. I think what we're gonna see more of is certain parts of jobs or potentially even big chunks of jobs being uh replaced with AI. But then what does that maybe allow us to do that we hadn't in that job that we hadn't previously been been able to do? So for a sourcer, for example, maybe they're not having to spend eight hours a day doing sourcing. Maybe they only need to spend four hours reviewing the candidates that that sourcing tool is bringing in. Can they spend that four hours sitting in meetings and getting the context of the teams they're trying to hire for? Um, can they be uh looking at data and helping to uh make better data-informed decisions? So there's potentially, yes, a contraction of the number of jobs, but the quality and the opportunities in those in those jobs might be might be more. And I think that's where, yes, the disruption's gonna happen, but you can still you can still get a lot of value and and you know use it as a partnership.

SPEAKER_03: 12:00

Based on my um experience of you and Jenna in the team, I think that Cardata is full of pretty cool hip people, obviously. Just on that recruitment piece, but when when you when you guys are now because you're in a more senior role than the last time we spoke, when when you guys are now making plans for who you want to bring into the team, has the characteristics of that ideal candidate changed as a result of uh the rapid onset of using AI within the workplace? So what I mean by that, for example, are you are you guys more about we we uh we just need people who fit with the culture and are open to trying new things and and learning new technologies as opposed to a couple of years ago, where maybe it was around they need to have these skill sets, they need to have this experience.

SPEAKER_02: 12:50

Yeah, I definitely to a degree. I mean, culture has always been definitely important, but I think that is so that continues to be important. One thing I have noticed is we've incorporated more questions to assess uh what you just said about that being open to learn new technologies is is what are these candidates bringing in terms of yes, they may have experience using it in their current roles, but that those are going to be few and far between, I think. Um, having like a true, what people call AI native uh candidates. What I think I've seen the shift is just asking more questions to assess what is their curiosity? What have they even taken some steps to try Chat GPT or try an AI tool uh within their domain? Uh have they been doing any reading? Like, are they curious about it? That curiosity is such an important characteristic. Uh, it always was, I think, for us, but now in the age of AI, that curiosity. And I think from a soft skills perspective, critical thinking uh is important too, because that's a key part of being able to use AI effectively. So I would think those are two shifts that I've seen over the last six months really being spurred on by just not just the rise of AI, but our own internal goal to accelerate the adoption of AI and the uh high ROI use of AI.

SPEAKER_03: 14:22

So just continuing down this track for a minute, if you don't mind indulging me, um going to what you said there at the end in terms of encouraging team members to try new tools to learn more about AI. What happens when you have colleagues that perhaps been at a company for a number of years and for whatever reason they're just not comfortable with learning these new technologies? How can you encourage them to adopt that mindset so they they still want to continuously learn and and go outside of their comfort zone?

SPEAKER_02: 14:49

I like to understand uh do they have a fear? And actually, it was really surprising because I same way, I thought we were gonna have more people that were resistant to uh uh or afraid of what it could be. And we actually did a survey uh as like an initial step to our AI acceleration journey. And I was pleasantly surprised to see that the sentiment around it was much more excitement. Uh, there was a couple people that were unsure, but there, I don't believe there was anyone that was like, no, not excited about this at all or not interested in this at all. So I think that comes back to what is the culture profile characteristics that you're you're bringing in in the in the first place. Um, but you know, even if we did have, if we do have those people and they just didn't want to say, uh, or you know, they they they are exhibiting that, um I think education is a powerful tool. So one thing we're focusing on right now is is educating around um, you know, what what is sensitive data? What is sensitive data within each domain of the company? Um, and how do we give people tangible tools to know what kind of data can go where and what kind of data shouldn't go where? Like that's a very tangible thing. And so I think when you make it accessible and educational, um, knowledge is power. So hopefully they feel more comfortable knowing what they can and cannot do.

SPEAKER_03: 16:15

As a wonderful, cool, senior HR slash people leader, uh, maybe you can help me. How can HR and people leaders strike a balance between leveraging AI for insights and still keeping that empathy and those personal connections that's so critical in people operations?

SPEAKER_02: 16:32

Yeah, great question and uh probably the pinnacle question that so many uh HR and people leaders are are dealing with. I I see a couple of things going back to what we're saying before, but like the kind of natural job enrichment, if we can automate tasks that don't require humans to do it and that aren't the areas where we're going to have a like high human interaction, like you know, uploading someone's information and creating their profile in an HRS, like that doesn't need to have someone do it. It can be automated, like AI could could automatically do that, um, or running a report or whatever it might be. So, you know, it could free up our time to be able to uh have more human interactions, which on lean teams, uh lean people teams is can feel like it's hard to come by. So I think it's just being very selective of of where you're going to use it and how you're gonna use it. And um and and making sure that you're not using it. You have the checks and balances too of where you're using it that can uh ensure that you're you're you're not missing out on an opportunity for for human interaction. Um so yeah, it's it's being selective. I I don't know if that's even the best answer, to be honest. Uh, because I think we're all still figuring it out, but that's my initial, my initial sense is it can create actually more time and opportunity for us to connect with the people that we're serving.

SPEAKER_03: 18:20

Absolutely. And yet we need to be more um mindful of it, more um purposeful when it because before it was when everybody worked in the office and you didn't have all these robots doing loads of things for you. I guess back then it was just easier to have to build up those connections because people are around you all the time, right? These days, what I'm hearing from your answer there is you you've got to be more purposeful, you've got to make those opportunities create that that space to still bond with your colleagues.

SPEAKER_02: 18:48

And I think that that has through every evolution. Uh one thing that has consistently popped up in my mind over the last um uh couple of weeks is you know, we used to have someone that pushed a mail card around in our offices, and they were someone that could create connections by like delivering the mail. And, you know, that was that was a part of human connection. And then we switched to email. Um, so we didn't need that person anymore. So we then had to find a way to connect with with people. Uh, we had to find a way to connect with uh people in in other roles, and so that was maybe going for coffee chats. So there's always that evolution of having to find ways to connect with people. I I don't think is necessarily anything new. Um, it's just happening once again.

SPEAKER_03: 19:37

In your experience, uh, how can AI help HR have a stronger voice at the top table, especially when it comes to connecting people priorities to business outcomes?

SPEAKER_02: 19:48

The the the number one thing is we it like we mentioned, one of its strengths is being able to aggregate a ton of data very quickly and potentially connecting much larger data sources that's disparate and being able to do that. So when we have that, when we can automate that and we have that that data, we can again use our strength, which is the contextual side. We can spend more time in the meetings with the teams or working with the leaders to really understand, well, what is what does this data mean? Why are we why are we seeing these things? And uh I think it will just naturally open up an opportunity for HR leaders to focus on the ways that they can understand the business more to then bring that context back to to the data. Um, and and being able to, with a lot of AI tools, like use our natural language to be able to ask the questions and then get the data in return is huge because no longer do we need to be like data scientists or data analysts, we can uh we can be HR people and let the AI and the and the software do the analytical stuff for us.

SPEAKER_03: 21:08

We are flying through these questions. Uh just a couple more before I let you go for today. Uh when you're looking ahead, okay. So um maybe pull your crystal ball from under your beautiful table there and uh look into your crystal ball. When we're looking ahead, maybe five years, what what do you hope the relationship between AI and HR looks like?

SPEAKER_02: 21:30

I I hope that HR leaders are at the forefront of knowing the risks, the benefits, and the specific applications of that to their business. And and they uh really are kind of the HR or the AI transformers uh within within their business. And so that's that's one thing I hope. But more more than anything, I I I hope that it unlocks a time where uh or it unlocks uh kind of an acceleration of what I think has been unfolding over the past like 10 years, which is HR people becoming much more business centric and not just seen as not just seen as a cost center, but really being able to uh understand and articulate their value and the value of the things they're doing in the in the context of of the broader business. So I really hope that it's something we take the opportunity now to be leaders on and be thought leaders on and um business transformation leaders on um because uh we we have the skill and the ability to to connect uh to connect the people with the technology. And I hope we take advantage of that.

SPEAKER_03: 22:54

Excellent. And just finally for today, Lindsay Clayborne, how can our listeners connect with you? Is that LinkedIn, Instagram? Do you want to share your email address? Are you all over the TikToks and places? And of course, how can folks also learn more about card data?

SPEAKER_02: 23:09

Sure thing. Uh LinkedIn is the primary place. Uh, I have fallen off the bandwagon with Instagram. Tried the TikTok thing, also fell off the bandwagon very quickly. So I am uh reaching my uh LinkedIn only era right now. Uh so definitely would love to connect with anyone. They're always down to chat. Um, love being able to soundboard ideas. So uh connect with me on LinkedIn. Uh, and of course, if anyone wants to learn more about Cardata, cardata.co, uh, you can also check out our YouTube channel. Uh, we have a ton of really great informative videos there with one of our key personalities uh internally. And uh we're actually going to be at a bunch of events uh coming up in the fall. Um we will be at NBWA, uh, which is a huge conference uh for uh people in the in the beverage space. So uh we'd love to connect with people there. Um and I will also be at the Women in Construction uh conference in September. So we'd love to connect with anyone there.

SPEAKER_03: 24:10

Excellent. I'd just like to add to that uh when I finally get my butt back over to your side of the pond and I'm running another disrupt HR in Buffalo. Um, I would love for you to be a speaker down there, given that where you are based.

SPEAKER_02: 24:23

I would love that. Yeah, I mean, Buffalo is just a hop and a skip over the border there. So would love it.

SPEAKER_03: 24:31

Okay, we can talk about this. Excellent. That just leaves me to say for today, though, Lindsay. Thank you very much for being my returning guest.

SPEAKER_02: 24:38

Yeah, well, thank you for having me. It was so great to see you again. Uh, let's not let another you know year and four months go by, okay?

SPEAKER_03: 24:46

Okay, okay. Sounds good to me. And listeners, as always, until next time, happy working.

SPEAKER_01: 24:54

Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show. If you enjoyed this episode, why not subscribe and listen to some of the hundreds of episodes published by HR Gazette? And remember, for what's new in the world of work, subscribe to the show, follow us on social media, and visit hrgazette.com.