Your Workforce Isn’t “Woke,” It’s Wiser with Dean Delpeache

Pressure is rising on DEI programs, but the smartest companies aren’t retreating—they’re getting clearer. In this episode, Bill Banham welcomes global inclusion expert Dean Delpeache back to the show to unpack the legal, cultural, and practical forces reshaping workplace equity and belonging. From U.S. executive orders to multinational ripple effects, Dean breaks down what’s actually changing inside organizations and what’s just media noise.

We explore a critical reframing: equity isn’t about engineering outcomes—it’s about ensuring access. Accommodations, transparent processes, and consistent selection criteria do more than satisfy compliance; they unlock performance. Dean details how teams can move away from identity quotas while still expanding the pipeline through intentional sourcing: partnerships with veteran groups, disability organizations, and community networks that widen opportunity without promising a numeric end state. The result is defensible, humane hiring that holds up under scrutiny.

One of the most inspiring threads is the rise of neurodiversity at work. We talk candidly about shedding stigma, normalizing accommodations, and redesigning interviews to assess real job skills. Dean shares simple, high-impact changes—like structured questions, work samples, and clearer expectations—that help candidates shine and help managers make better decisions. We also dig into how leaders can host courageous conversations about race, belonging, and systemic barriers, using ERGs and time-boxed dialogues to turn discomfort into progress.

We close with the data that ties it all together: belonging drives advocacy. When people feel included, they’re dramatically more likely to recommend their employer, fueling talent attraction more credibly than any ad spend. If you’re navigating DEI rollbacks, stakeholder pressure, or global alignment, this conversation offers a roadmap: document fairness, widen access, train inclusive leaders, and amplify belonging. If this resonates, subscribe, share with your team, and leave a review telling us what you’ll try first.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Guest Introduction
• 1:45 Dean’s Work And DEI Context
• 2:33 U.S. Executive Orders And “Illegal DEI”
• 4:10 What Companies Are Changing And Why
• 5:05 Equity Misunderstood And The Case For Access
• 7:32 Hiring Without Quotas, Sourcing With Intent
• 9:40 Neurodiversity, Shame To Strength
• 12:10 Practical Process Changes For Inclusion
• 13:16 Creating Space For Hard Conversations
• 14:15 Amplify Inclusion And Belonging Data
• 16:00 Connect With Dean And Closing

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:02

Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's most downloaded and shared podcasts designed for HR pros, talent execs, tech enthusiasts, and business leaders. For hundreds more episodes and what's new in the world of work, subscribe to the show, follow us on social media, and visit hrgazette.com.

SPEAKER_00: 0:25

Welcome to another episode of the HR Chat Show. Hello, listeners. This is your host today, Bill Batham. And back on the show after far too long is my friend and super awesome human being, Dean Delpish. Dean is a global diversity and inclusion consultant, professional speaker, director and board member over at Stracity Inc., and program lead and professor diversity, inclusion, belonging, and equity at George Brown College Continuing Education. And did I mention he's just an all-round awesome human being? Dean, my friend, how have you been? Nice to chat to you again today.

SPEAKER_01: 1:01

Bill, it is amazing to talk with you and super excited to be back on the show. And so much has happened in the world since uh since we've last talked. So I'm really excited to chat a little bit.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12

Dean, I've got to tell everybody I miss your face. Uh regular listeners of this show will know that I am not based in Toronto on a regular basis anymore because I've got a young family and I'm back in England most of the time. But when I was in TO, I'd get to see Dean on a regular basis and he'd speak at events that we were doing and all the rest of it. He is just a good person. Dean, why don't you start by for those people who haven't listened to our previous conversations on this show, they're not perhaps as familiar with you, why don't you take a minute or two and reintroduce yourself to our audience and update them in terms of what you've been up to over the last couple of years?

SPEAKER_01: 1:45

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, you know, I I've been in this in the area of diversity, equity, inclusion for the last uh over 10 years. Um, and you know, currently, you know, I continue to work uh to help support organizations with regards to strategizing around how do we um move forward in uh today's space around you know these words. As we're all aware, there's so many things that have happened around diversity, equity, inclusion in the last couple of years. And so it's really how do you you know continue to create a path forward? And I still you know lead the program at George Brown College. Um I'm the program lead. We have about two professors who are doing a great job still um educating individuals in this space. And I think uh, you know, for today it's gonna be a great conversation about what's going on.

SPEAKER_00: 2:33

How have recent DEI rollbacks, particularly in the US, affected the work that you're doing with local and global organizations?

SPEAKER_01: 2:42

Yeah, absolutely. Well, just for context, so people are fully aware, um, you know, when the Trump administration came in in January, they immediately um moved forward with their agenda. And a part of that agenda was to create executive orders that would eliminate what they consider illegal DEI. Um, discrimination is and um has been since the 50s um illegal. Um, there is a uh uh a law called Title VII, which uh makes it illegal to discriminate against uh anyone based on whether it's race, gender, anything uh to that effect in the workplace. But um, you know, the Trump administration has moved forward to say that uh companies have been doing what's called, and I'll put it in air quotes so people understand, workforce shaping. And so therefore they wanted to eliminate what they consider illegal um diversity, equity, inclusion programming. So, in in hindsight, what has that meant? Well, companies, particularly in the US or companies who are federal contractors to the US, have been looking at how they can align themselves to those executive orders. And what I what we you've noticed is there's been a media hype around um companies who people are saying are rolling back initiatives. But then there's uh you know the other side where there's companies that they say they're doubling down. These are the terminologies that are being used, right? What we've specifically seen is most organizations, and Gartner um has done some excellent research where I believe it's about 80% of companies have said they're not rolling back anything. But what we have seen is that companies are just trying to align themselves to the executive orders to make sure they're not doing anything that's illegal. And I think that's really, really what's key. Um, and so as long as you can show orve, if necessary, um, that the activities you're doing are not considered illegal, you're not trying to shape the workforce. And an example of that is, you know, um uh companies may be removing goals and targets because that may appear that you're trying to shape it in one way or another, but doesn't mean that companies are still not trying to source from different pools of talent. I think that's really, really important. So I think it's just that move, just making sure companies are aligned. Now, where that quickly spills over, Bill, is when you have a multi-uh a company's head office is in the US and they're multinational globally, right? Whether it's in Canada, the UK, or wherever, you're seeing those companies starting to realign their programs to be aligned with the organization in the US, typically just because they don't want any issues over the next couple of years. And so that's really what you're starting to see.

SPEAKER_00: 5:27

Maybe you can help explain why a lot of organizations pre-administrative change removed the E from DEI. What's up, what's up with the E, I guess is the question. What why why is the equity piece so political?

SPEAKER_01: 5:47

Yeah, absolutely. Well, look, can I be very honest with you? Since um, and I'll just be very specific, you know, this work around DEI has been going on for a long time, but when George Floyd was murdered, that's when you saw this influx of individuals, companies start to say, we've got to do something, right? We've always wanted to ensure that there is equity. Everyone has wanted that. I mean, you think about this, right? If you've got someone who comes to an interview who may um not hear very well or may be considered deaf, you want them to have an opportunity to be able to do their best work. And so you provide them an uh a sign language interpreter to help support them in their interview process. That's called an accommodation. That's equity, giving people um access to things that they might need to be productive. But what has happened is companies and organizations and people have thought that equity means equity and outcome. So what we're trying to do is shape the actual outcome of what is to happen. So if we can put, you know, 10 black people right into this interview process, that means we can get, you know, more black people hired. And therefore we're shaping the outcome, and that's equity. So the truth is that isn't equity, right? That is actually shaping an outcome. So what's happened is companies have said, well, we don't want to be perceived as shaping outcomes. So we're removing that word equity, right? Now the truth is that if we think about the concept of inclusion, equity is an inclusion because if you can have an environment where people feel included, you're going to want to provide the accommodations and the access that they need to do their best work. So it's fine to remove it, but why they've removed it is because of the perception of being seen as making an outcome equitable when really and truly that was not even the intent of the word, nor has it ever been the intent of the word.

SPEAKER_00: 7:44

So, I mean, you're the expert here. Was it the right move to remove the E?

SPEAKER_01: 7:50

Um, I don't think so. I think the right move personally was to explain what it means, right? And keep the narrative going and explain what we're really trying to do with this word equity, right? Because you want equity. Why would you not want equity? You want people to have access to accommodations that support them in their journey at work. And when they have that access, they're gonna feel like they belong at that company, right? Think about it. If a company is like says to you, um, do you require uh a sign language interpreter? We're happy to provide that to you. What is that person gonna feel like? Wow, thank you. I really, really appreciate that. Um, maybe you have a visual issue when you look at the screen and you need a magnifier, and the company says, Hey, we're willing to provide that for you. That's an accommodation that helps to provide equity. People will appreciate that. I think what we should have really done is taken the time to say no, we don't want, we're not trying to produce outcomes and and shape, so to speak, but we're really just trying to provide access.

SPEAKER_00: 8:51

Okay, this is why we get Dean on the show time and again, because he knows his stuff. Dean, are organizations changing how they approach hiring and retention then to avoid being seen as too political? And if so, what what what are the consequences of of that kind of recalibration?

SPEAKER_01: 9:08

Yeah, I think what I what we started to see, particularly over the last, I'm gonna say year or so, is really companies moving away from what I'm gonna call like goals, right? Um, you know, saying, hey, we want X amount of individuals in our organization by the year 2027, right? I think where companies are moving away is from that, but organizations are still being intentional about making sure they're sourcing from different pools of talent. Um, whether it is attending conferences that are specific to engineers in one demographic or community, whether it's a local organization that maybe focus on, you know, veterans, military, individuals with disabilities. You know, one of the big things you're starting to see now is uh a move forward to support people who have neurodiversities. So I think we're still looking at ways to bring uh individuals from different backgrounds into our workforce, whether it's based on experience, skills, or even identity, but you're just seeing that elimination of, you know, we've got to reach a certain goal by a certain date, or else we're not, we're we're a horrible organization. I think that's what we're seeing a uh difference in.

SPEAKER_00: 10:25

So on the neurodiversity piece, I'm I'm dyslexic. Um, and I've had roles where I've been the editor at magazines on the rest of it. And I'm of a certain age where uh there's a lot of uh shame associated with being dyslexic uh in the workplace, frankly. Uh not something that I would have admitted to uh back then. Um something that I I felt like I had to hide. Um what a wonderful outcome that now it's it's the opposite, and we celebrate being neuro spicy, neuro neurodiverse, always different terms. Um what does that mean for the potential of the workforce in terms of new ideas, new ways to collaborate, new ways to learn that now that now that employers are embracing these neuro spicy people?

SPEAKER_01: 11:09

Can I ask you one question, Bill, before I answer that? My question for you is what made you feel more comfortable to actually share that you've had this like dyslexia?

SPEAKER_00: 11:19

Uh the the context that we now live in, um, you know, in the last three plus, maybe maybe up to five years, it it's it's okay to share that with people. Um before, in my personal professional experience, it wasn't.

SPEAKER_01: 11:35

And Bill, what you just said is the work of equity. It is literally making people more aware that people learn differently, are um uh understand and uh educate themselves in different ways and manners than what we typically or normatively see. And because of that, we can find space for everybody in the workplace. And so I celebrate the fact that you even could bring that up in this conversation so openly. But number two, what is that gonna do? Your um conversation on that is gonna inform somebody else that they can speak up about it. And then what can we do? We can create process, and this is going to your question now. We can create process in our workplace to say, hey, traditional interviews don't work for individuals who may have certain um types of neurodiversities. How can we change our process? How can we uh incorporate a partner that can help me us in our process to ensure that we can create teams of individuals who may have neurodiversities but can still do their best work, right? And so I think this is kind of where we're rolling to. Why this why it's so important to share these stories, because they talk about why equity is so important.

SPEAKER_00: 12:46

We have we're already running out of conversation of time. This always happens when I get you on the show, um, because I like to ask you lots of questions. Uh, next one for you. How can leaders hold space for hard conversations on race, belonging, or systemic inequities without shutting people down? Uh, especially when those conversations get uncomfortable or maybe even polemic, diverse, divisive. What are your thoughts there? But because we are running out of time, I'm going to challenge you to answer in 60 seconds or less.

SPEAKER_01: 13:16

Go. Yeah, two things. Two things people can do. If you're working in an organization, you want to really create these spaces. Number one, start some type of employment resource group, an affinity group around um identity where you can actually have people in the room where you're comfortable to have these conversations. If you can't do that right away, have a courageous conversation. Just say, hey, we're gonna have a uh talk today where we're gonna talk about belonging and what makes people feel more uh feel a sense of belonging. Have that conversation and see people start to open up. And I guarantee as you start to see it, you'll have more and um they'll be successful to help you to open those dialogues up.

SPEAKER_00: 13:54

Okay, thank you. So many more questions for you, but uh we only have a couple more minutes here. Um, so two more. I would ask you two more. Uh looking ahead, what's one shift you believe that companies must make to protect and advance inclusion and equity work in the face of growing external pressure?

SPEAKER_01: 14:16

I think that from a leadership level down and a grassroots level up, we need to amplify the importance of inclusion. Like amplify it. Now is the time that we need to say that word constantly. Amplify this is an inclusive culture, amplify our leaders need to be trained on inclusive leadership behavior because that's the foundation of inclusion, making sure leaders can lead teams, amplify our teams need what we call inclusive norms, a set of um um values that each team has in order to do their best work. Amplify that. And the reason why I'm saying that is this, okay, Bill, there was a study that was done by an organization called Better Up. And in that study, they asked uh an employee net promoter score question, you know, how many of you would promote this organization? What they found is that um in that study, 160%, okay, um uh people are more are 160% more likely to promote their organization if they feel a sense of belonging, which means if you want the best people working for your company, people are gonna tell people about your organization if they feel like they belong in your organization, not because you have some great sourcing campaign. So make sure the people feel included, and I think we need to amplify that.

SPEAKER_00: 15:43

Excellent. And just finally, for today, Mr. Delpish, Dr. Delpish, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 15:49

No, not Dr.

SPEAKER_00: 15:50

Yet. I'm working on that. Not yet, not yet. Just give me a bit more time. Next time we try it. But so just just just for today, Dean, how can folks connect with you and learn more about all you get up to? And before you answer that, uh, I just want to um drive home, listeners, that uh Dean is an absolute gentleman. Uh, I think extremely highly of him. If you ever got an opportunity to connect with him or work with him, uh, you are a lucky person and it will enrich your world. Okay, Dean, with that said, how can folks connect with you?

SPEAKER_01: 16:20

Bill, I appreciate that. Um, best way to connect with me is just on LinkedIn. Go on LinkedIn, put my name Dean Delpeach, and that is the best way to connect with me. I do my best uh to connect with everybody except if I think you're a bot. So uh feel free to send me a connection. Happy to chat.

SPEAKER_00: 16:36

Rock and roll. That just leaves me to say for today, Dean, thank you very much for being my guest again on the HR Chat Show. Bill, it's been an honor, as always. And listeners, as always, until next time, happy working.

SPEAKER_02: 16:52

Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show. If you enjoyed this episode, why not subscribe and listen to some of the hundreds of episodes published by HR Gazette? And remember, for what's new in the world of work, subscribe to the show, follow us on social media, and visit hrgazette.com.