Modern Leaders Build Trust By Managing Themselves with Russell Robinson

The fastest way to lose trust as a leader is to pretend you’re fine when you’re not. Bill Bannham sits down with leadership strategist and emotional intelligence practitioner Russell Robinson to unpack a deceptively simple idea: leadership has to be “selfish” first. Not selfish in the ego sense, but selfish in the disciplined sense of knowing your values, naming your non-negotiables, protecting your well-being, and building the self-awareness needed to show up consistently for other people. 

We talk about what’s changing across generations and what isn’t. No matter your age, people want meaningful work, to feel heard, and to operate in a psychologically safe culture where they can take smart risks. But Russell explains why Gen Z and younger Millennials are bringing more of the outside world into the workplace, and why emotionally intelligent leaders have to meet that reality with curiosity, not control. The conversation also gets practical for HR pros and talent leaders: hiring emotionally intelligent people early, building leadership development programs that strengthen self-awareness, and treating relationship-building as “personal currency,” not a soft extra. 

Then we go straight at uncertainty. When the world feels unstable and fear shows up, Russell shares what separates leaders who keep teams grounded from those who amplify stress. We explore decision-making without guarantees, learning loops after setbacks, and how to be realistic while still giving people confidence that the sun will come up. 

Transcript

Welcome And Big Leadership Claim

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's most downloaded and shared podcasts designed for HR pros, talent execs, tech enthusiasts, and business leaders. For hundreds more episodes and what's new in the world of work, subscribe to the show, follow us on social media, and visit hrgazette.com.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

The future of leadership may have less to do with authority and more to do with self-awareness, emotional intelligence, curiosity, and the ability to create workplaces where people actually feel safe enough to grow.

Soccer Banter And Quick Reset

SPEAKER_02 0:39

Hey, this is Bill Bannham, your host today. And in this episode, I welcome back my friend, leadership strategist, educator, and emotional intelligence practitioner, Russell Robinson. Russell is faculty and director within the Key Undergraduate Leadership Program at American University School of Public Affairs and founder of Amplified Research and Consulting, where he helps organizations build healthier cultures, stronger leaders, and more connected workplaces. Russell's work sits at the intersection of emotional intelligence, curiosity, wellness, psychological safety, and organizational culture. And in this conversation, me and Russell are going to explore why modern leadership starts with leading yourself first, how younger generations are redefining leadership expectations, and what organizations can do to build cultures where people feel empowered to ask questions, reflect, and lead authentically. Russell, my friend, how are you doing? Welcome back to the show today.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

Bill, we didn't talk about soccer, football on the pre-call, man. I'm feeling like we we missed something, but uh my Manchester United is in the Champions League next year. So uh we're starting slow. We're starting to look like a professional organization, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

How did we how did we miss talking about the soccer before we get recalled today?

SPEAKER_03 2:00

Do not know, man. It just hit me because you know, we we I didn't check to see where Norwich was, your beloved Norwich Canaries. And uh, you know, Manchester United, the world goes as Manchester United goes, but uh now we're all rallying and and rooting for PSG in the Champions League final against Arsenal, obviously.

SPEAKER_02 2:23

Uh fun fact uh by by June, you could have a situation where the um the club world champions, the European champions, the Europa champions, and the conference league champions are all from the English Premier League. We will see. Um that doesn't really resonate with too many of our listeners, though, Russell. So let's focus on something else instead. Um you've been on the show before, so I'll I'll direct folks to one of those previous episodes to get to get a bit more bio. Instead, I want to jump straight into the hard-hitting stuff.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

All right, let's get to it.

Selfish Leadership And Self-Care

SPEAKER_02 2:57

Um, so you you often talk about selfish leadership, the the idea that leaders must first learn to lead themselves before they can effectively lead others. What does that philosophy mean in practice, especially in today's high pressure workplaces?

SPEAKER_03 3:11

Yeah, so you're talking about a high-pressure workplace and how people are managing how they present themselves. And I start out from an employee engagement standpoint. So, what makes employees engaged and understanding how people are impacted by what they're seeing in the world and presenting themselves daily? It impacts how they lead others, but it also impacts how they navigate their their own lives. And what I have found, uh, last time you and I talked, I worked for the US federal government, and now I'm uh at my alma mater American University. We found this sweet spot where we talk to Gen X, my age leaders in the government, and get them to slow down and think about themselves. And to be clear, there's nothing wrong with thinking selfishly about yourself as a leader. Why do you want to lead? What are your values? What are your non-negotiables? How do you manage your mental health and well-being? Because how you lead yourself impacts how you lead others. And I'm a big believer in how you treat anybody is how you treat everybody. So how you selfishly lead and love and take care of yourself, that impacts the people you work with and for, but also the people in your personal lives, right? Uh, I remember I was going through a rough period when I worked in the government, maybe, maybe about uh 12, 13 years ago. And I would get home and just sit in my car. Like, how how do I leave everything I experienced in this dysfunctional office in the car and not take it into my family? And what I found was I really wasn't as good at it as I thought. So if you can selfishly think about carving out these spaces and places for yourself to reflect and strategize and also speak those words of empowerment and love to yourself, it impacts you, it impacts the people you lead, and it also impacts the people you love.

Gen Z Expectations And Psychological Safety

SPEAKER_02 5:28

Okay, so you work closely with emerging leaders at American University School of Public Affairs. Are you noticing shifts in how younger generations think about leadership, emotional intelligence, and workplace culture compared to previous generations? If you say no to me, uh uh this this interview ends now because my goodness me, uh the Gen Z are facing so many challenges that that my generation, millennials, didn't have to face. Um, I'm gonna age you now and say that um your generation as well. Um the um um the Gen Xs. So what what what's your take?

SPEAKER_03 6:04

Yeah, so a typical school year. I I run my undergraduate leadership program at American University. Uh I also teach in the regular masters. So my students are Gen Z to millennials. I teach our executive master's program, so that's uh millennials and Gen Xers, and then uh certificate programs for senior government leaders, predominantly Gen Xers. My student age range per year is 18 to 63. When you look at all these different generations, there are similarities. People want to feel like they matter. Let's get into the basic employee engagement. You want to feel like you're doing meaningful work, you're heard, you're empowered, you're operating in a culture that is psychologically safe, you can take risks, you can build connections and your tribes, and you have this ability to have proper work-life balance. That doesn't change no matter the age. Um, I think the sweet spot I have found uh with with the young adults, as I like to like to call them, is they're bringing more of the world into the workplace. So uh when I got out of university, University of Dayton in 1991, one, you went into the office, right? There was, you know, my kid, my students are tired of hearing about the the days before the internet, but you went into the office and it was the assumption that was it, whatever was going on in your life outside of work, you would check that at the door and bring it all into the office. And what people want now from leaders is you want emotionally intelligent leaders. And to do that, you have to understand that people are bringing a lot into for me, how they're bringing it into the classroom every day. And and again, I mentioned emotional intelligence earlier. In retrospect, there was no greater time to really focus on the mint on emotional intelligence than your first year at college or university. You've moved away from home, uh, you you're navigating new friends. Maybe the the university experience is harder than what you thought. Maybe you're bringing how you manage your anxiety and your wellness is now at play. So it gives us this opportunity, this opportunity to really start to build this muscle toward self-awareness. And again, tying it back to this aspect of thinking selfishly for yourself, so that we start to build this these muscles so that when they get into the workforce and then eventually get into leadership, they have a little bit more knowledge than uh than I did when I first started supervise.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

Thanks for listening to this episode of the HR Chat Podcast. If you enjoy the audio content we produce, you'll love our articles on the HR Gazette. Learn more at hrgazette.com. And now back to the show.

SPEAKER_02 9:16

Okay, very

Universal Leadership Pressures And Personal Currency

SPEAKER_02 9:18

good. Now you've worked across higher education, public sector leadership, and organizational consulting, of course. What are some leadership challenges that seem pretty universal, regardless of industry or focus?

SPEAKER_03 9:33

Yeah, so um nobody has bandwidth. Uh people have to do less with more quicker. Uh I remember my second job out of school, I worked at a law firm in DC, and one of the partners was saying, with the advent of the fax machine, our customers are respect are expecting responses within a day or two. And now it's happening even quicker. So you have to do more with less. That's uh that's one aspect of it. People aren't expected to stay at the job forever. Again, I'm in Washington, D.C. Uh, I I tell the story of my my parents were part of the great migration from the South to the North. They were the last wave, first generation college educated. They moved from North Carolina to D.C. in 1966. My mother got a job with D.C. Public Schools, and in 1966, she knew D.C. Public Schools would be her only employer for 30 years. Uh, my youngest son is 26. He does social media for an MBA team. He's been in three different cities in three years after graduating college. So understanding that what people want from work has changed in a certain sense. And there is this aspect again, I get back to mental health and well-being. Um, it is expected for leaders that you can, while holding your employees accountable for delivering results, uh uh enhancing the culture, whatever the organization's goals or missions are, you can meet people where they are from a mental health and well-being standpoint. And I think the one thing, if you look, that hasn't changed is I'm very big on talking to students, no matter what their age, about what understanding what their personal currency is, right? Your personal currency really gets into your ability to deliver results and build relationships. Uh, I'm with college students now, 18, 19 years old. They think it's all about grades, grades and internships. And I'm saying, hey, you're going to get to a point where it's really about building relationships and building your tribe and finding your tribe. And I think being a leader who knows how to be connected and build tribes, build connections, but encourages people on their teams to build tribes and find connections beyond just delivering results is still something. It's still a major part to the organizational culture and mission and the development of young adults at the university setting that really needs uh some additional emphasis for future leaders.

Leading Through Uncertainty And Fear

SPEAKER_02 12:31

You I'm sure you already know this. Um we live in some pretty uncertain times. There's some crazy stuff going on. There are a bunch of um extra contextual pressures on us that are um maybe affecting our mental health. Um so for example, um I'm I'm a kid born in the 80s, grew up in the optimistic 90s before 9-11. Um, and up until the last couple of years, you know, I haven't really had to experience the uh the existential crises that we are living in in you know, in the face of potential World War III scenarios. For example, not great. Um there's a question here somewhere. Um my question is during periods of uncertainty or crisis, what what separates emotionally intelligent leaders from leaders who struggle to maintain trust and stability?

SPEAKER_03 13:16

Yeah, so it I think it goes back to the recurring theme of emotional intelligence, right? How how do you manage your awareness? Uh are you able are you able to be realistic, but be optimistic and stay medium throughout this, right? I am a big believer that all challenges create opportunities. I'm also a big believer that you need uncertainty, right? You need uncertainty, you need to struggle, you need to be able to move to and through fear to manifest what you want on the other side. And I think when you get into uncertain times, uh what do people want? People want people, people want to work for people who can be realistic with them, but also let them know the sun will come up. Right? If you're in darkness, if you're in darkness, what is your internal light like? And for other people, what type of light do they have through the darkness that will let them know like this is just temporary? Right. We we often get into this aspect in my teachings because we talk about how you navigate the valleys, right? Because I think with young adults, uh they think that at 18 years old, the decision they make for what they're gonna study is gonna be their thing for the rest of their career, and they're gonna manifest whatever they want in a straight line. They won't ever work for bad bosses, they'll marry the right person, they'll have the correct number of kids and pets. And if you experience death, it'll be in the proper order. And life doesn't work like that. So, how do you lean into the uncertainty and understand that there's always a benefit or a challenge from that? Uh, we, for example, uh, I'll be doing research this summer looking at federal government employees who took the early retirement option last year or the deferred resignation. What's life like a year later, right? You've kind of been traumatized. Uh, you may have you may have unexpectedly seen your career path in government shortened. What is that like? And from some of the pre-calls and pre-conversations, most of them are like, yeah, once I got over the shock and started to map and plan, this hasn't been a bad experience. So to answer your question, uncertainty is a space of life, is a fact of life. Um, how you relate, most of every one of our guest lecturers, I asked them the question, what is their relationship like with fear? And it's amazing. I had a gentleman who said, My mother raised me and my brothers, that you either run towards fear or you walk towards fear, but you don't move in the opposite direction. And you also get people who talk about fear, fear is healthy. Fear, fear, help, like you need some fear because sometimes fear can make you move beyond the status quo. Maybe you need to be uncomfortable to navigate this change. I'm very big with my students that the role of the university is you have to understand you are in an ecosystem to help you manifest your dreams. Now you have to have dreams for the university to help you, but you have to understand you're gonna have to have some fear and some uncertainty to navigate it through that. And lastly, I will say when we bring people in to speak to our students, we we have these leaders and CEOs. We've actually had our basketball coach come in and they've talked about some of their biggest challenges they've overcome. And and we we level set it to them that uh everybody my age wishes all we had were the problems you had at 19 or 20 years old. Like you have to be prepared for uncertainty and learn to live, live in it and breathe through it and thrive through it. That was long-worded. Did that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Yeah, I mean, there's so much to unpack there. Um, you've got me thinking about all the missed opportunities from when I was 19. Um, but the biggest takeaway from me there, the biggest question I have is what isn't the right number of kids to have? Interesting. Interesting. I'm on two at the moment. If I have one more, I've got to buy a people carrier.

SPEAKER_03 17:43

Right, right. So, all right, the funny thing is so what I learned in going from two kids to three kids, with three kids, you can do laundry and have to do laundry every day. Two, you can make it to the weekend. Three, not so much. Uh not my kids, it seems to be uh you know, but it's funny though, because because we talk uh what I've talking to young adults, and I'm very clear. Look, my students are three times my age. I lean into them for how do I navigate the socials. Uh, I'm the second generation of hip-hop. I think we're on like the ninth, so they've got me into listening. I know more about K pop than most 57-year-old black grandfathers need to know, but but it works.

Decision Making Without Guarantees

SPEAKER_03 18:31

But at the end, all leadership, I say all leadership is at the end of the day, is decision making and communicating. And all adulting is gathering your do doing your due diligence, gathering your information, and you make a decision. And the biggest thing is there's no guarantee. Right? You can there's risk in every decision you make, right? You have to understand that every decision, like nothing is guaranteed. Uh you you pick a major, you get in and you don't like that major. Okay. There's an upside and a downside to changing your major. There's an upside and downside to keeping your major. Uh, I try to normalize, right? You make 2,000 decisions a day. I get my alarm goes off at 5 a.m. Am I gonna go to the gym or am I gonna stay in bed a little longer? Right? There's an upside and downside to both decisions. Uh, am I gonna go into the office today or am I gonna work from home? There's an upside and downside to those decisions. It's really getting the chance to understand. And I think the biggest thing, one of the biggest things I've noticed with these young adults is getting them to understand nothing's guaranteed with the decisions you make. But most of the time, if you make the wrong decision, you go in. Okay, what did I not understand? What variable showed up I didn't anticipate? Can I circle back around the block and make another decision? You know, and you and if you keep building that loop where you're always questioning, always learning, you start to normalize, you normalize uh decisions that did not go well. And you also learn that uncertainty is a place where you need to be strong to navigate to and through.

Where To Connect And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_02 20:26

Well, I'll tell you uh one decision that our listeners can make today, which is never wrong, and that is connecting with you. Uh if they choose to uh reach out to you either on LinkedIn, I'm guessing, or um, how how can they find out about amplified research? How can they learn more about all the other cool things you're up to?

SPEAKER_03 20:45

Yeah, so we've got we've got me, Russell Robinson, on LinkedIn. We've got our program, the Key Undergraduate Leadership Program on LinkedIn. Uh we have our own uh Instagram page, K-U-L-P-A-U. Uh the students are on me to get followers. So I think what I say, uh smash a like and follow. Uh but that's where you can find me. Uh, we're we're in this space right now. I think, I think, how did I get here? Um when I got my doctorate in employee engagement, I thought the goal was just to focus on the employees. And then it's like, well, that's not it. You really have to focus on the leaders. Um, leaders my age are not as curious as I thought they would be. So I try to move in the direction of curiosity. And being in a space with young adults who are curious and and they haven't learned uh some of those bad habits are not ingrained. Uh, and and meeting them where they are, it's just amazing when you focus curiosity and emotional intelligence and you start to build it into young adults because in essence, we are impacting the talent management process for organizations, right? It's good to have emotional intelligence training for your team, for your employees. It's even important, more important to identify emotionally intelligent people in the interview process so that you're bringing them into your talent management cycle a bit early.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Very good.

SPEAKER_03 22:21

And I don't think there was a question for that, but I don't know how you weave that.

SPEAKER_02 22:28

Russell Robinson, that just leaves me to say for today, my friend. Thank you very much for coming back.

SPEAKER_03 22:32

Bill, always a pleasure. We gotta, afterwards, we gotta figure out the Premier League schedule for the fall and figure out how we can uh catch a catch a match together.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

That sounds like music to my ears, although my team are not currently in the Premier League, but you know. What do you got a championship? Yeah, yeah. Um, and on that sad note, we'll leave it for today, then, listeners. Thanks very much for tuning in.

SPEAKER_03 22:55

Bill, always a pleasure, brother.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show. If you enjoyed this episode, why not subscribe and listen to some of the hundreds of episodes published by HR Gazette? And remember, for what's new in the world of work, subscribe to the show, follow us on social media, and visit hrgazette.com.