Midlife Career Change with Renée Hackett, Diane Loveys and Audley Stephenson

Is it ever too late to reinvent your career?

In this episode of the HRchat Podcast's Next Chapter series, guest host Pauline James speaks with three inspiring professionals who prove that meaningful career transitions don't have an expiry date.

Actor, writer, and producer Renée Hackett shares her journey of creating opportunities instead of waiting for them, discusses building confidence later in life, and opens up about balancing career growth with the realities of perimenopause and menopause.

Former financial services marketing executive Diane Loveys explains how she successfully returned to paid employment after years focused on family and community, offering practical advice on workforce re-entry, transferable skills, flexible working, networking, and rebuilding confidence.

Leadership coach and podcaster Audley Stephenson discusses developing a purposeful portfolio career while maintaining a full-time role, embracing experimentation, and building a legacy-focused future beyond traditional retirement.

Whether you're planning a career pivot, returning to work after a break, exploring a portfolio career, or supporting experienced employees in your organisation, this episode offers practical advice and inspiring perspectives on what comes next.

In this episode:

•  Why careers don't have to follow a linear path 
•  Building confidence during midlife career transitions 
•  Creating your own opportunities instead of waiting for permission 
•  Menopause, perimenopause, and supporting experienced professionals 
•  Returning to work after caregiving or a career break 
•  Recognising transferable skills gained outside traditional employment 
•  Flexible work and second-career opportunities 
•  Networking tips for career changers 
•  Building a portfolio career alongside full-time work 
•  Planning a purpose-driven retirement and lasting legacy 
•  Redefining success in the second half of your career 

Guests

•  Renée Hackett – Actor, writer and producer 
•  Diane Loveys – Former financial services marketing executive and travel professional 
•  Audley Stephenson – Leadership coach, podcaster and founder of The Audacious Living Podcast

Transcript

Welcome And Series Framing

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to the HR Chat Show, one of the world's most downloaded and shared podcasts designed for HR pros, talent execs, tech enthusiasts, and business leaders. For hundreds more episodes and what's new in the world of work, subscribe to the show, follow us on social media, and visit hrgazette.com.

SPEAKER_03 0:25

Hello, I'm Pauline James, CEO of Anchor HR and associate editor of the HR Gazette. I'm excited to be here today with the final episode of the next chapter series. For too long, queers have been described as if they peak and then wind down. But life doesn't follow a script, and neither should our work. In this episode, we hear personal stories from three people carving their own paths in their 50s. Renee Hackett, whose career is ramping up in new and exciting ways. Dan Leovies, who recently returned to the paid workforce to pursue a new path for herself. And Audley Stevenson, who has invested in his passions alongside his day job with the goal of making them the focus of his legacy career.

Renee Bets On Herself

SPEAKER_03 1:12

Excited to be hearing from Renee Hackett. Renee is an actor, writer, and producer. Her original short-form TV series, What Odds, is currently on Bellfiber TV. It won Best Web Series Pilot at the Berlin Women's Cinema Festival and has received nominations for the Canadian Screen Awards, LA Independent Women Film Awards, and the Miami Web Fest. It is now available on YouTube. Her award-winning short film, Some Saturdays, screened in 2018 at numerous Canadian film festivals. Over her 30-year career, she has appeared on stages across the country and in numerous television shows, including Hudson and Rex Departure, Astrid and Lily Saved the World. She can currently be seen in The Misses Downstairs on Bell Fiber TV. Most recently, she co-wrote an episode of Hudson and Rex that will air this month. Renee, so grateful for your time. Can you tell us a bit about your chosen career path, including how you've navigated the ups and downs?

SPEAKER_05 2:25

That's a good question. Big question. I'm an actor and uh I'm from a very tiny town in Newfoundland. And I loved theater in high school. It was just a hobby. I thought, okay, I'll just do this in high school, but I left it aside, went to university to do something practical. And after one year, I kind of went, yeah, no, this is not gonna work. So I went to theater school, which was odd in 1990 in St. Bernard's, Newfoundland, like a town with 300 people. So off I went, got my theater degree. And then the day after I graduated university, I left to go off and I don't know, East Star. And here we are 30 years later. There's been a lot of great work in theater and TV, but negotiating it was something that was very difficult. I worked at a bar that I met a lot of my core friend group called the Brass Taps in Toronto and survived doing bar work for almost 20 years. And I'd go off and I did things like play Franklin the Turtle, Clifford the Big Red Dog. I did all these toys and I did that for a long time. And then in about 2016, I sort of went through a real, what am I doing with my life? I want to really take a chance on myself. And so I did. And I gave everything up and learned how to write and learned how to produce film. And I've spent the last 10 years diving deep into a career where I have more agency because I felt like I can't really sit around and wait for someone to hire me. There's not a lot of agency in the world of an actor, really. You're just constantly waiting for someone to say yes, and there's an immense amount of rejection. So my skin had gotten really thin by that point. And I sort of went, yeah, I'm just gonna take a big chance on myself. And so I redefined my life in the last 10 years. I consider myself a late bloomer in terms of confidence and drive and betting on myself, sort of thing.

SPEAKER_03 4:12

I find it so fascinating. You're noting that it was when your skin felt the thinnest that you decided to go all in and bet on the future that you had dreamed for yourself.

SPEAKER_05 4:24

Oh, definitely. I read a quote that said, you don't know it, but you're dead already. And this probably sounds quite morbid, but it was very eye-opening for me. Because every day for about a year there, around 2016, every day was the same day. So I thought I need to change something because I want my life to be bigger and more beautiful and more remarkable. And so I just thought I have nothing to lose. So why not just go all in? So whenever I feel really sort of unsure or self-doubt creeps in, I'm gonna just acknowledge it because I think it's important. I just sort of switch it up a bit.

SPEAKER_03 4:57

I love that. It's not about denying how you're feeling, but it is about what can I do differently? And I'm gonna do this anyways.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

So how can I approach this in a different way than maybe I was earlier today or or previously?

SPEAKER_05 5:13

I kind of set myself up with a lot of big expectations in the past five years because I put a lot of pressure on myself and I disappointed myself. And I acknowledged that within myself and sort of went, you know, you're too hard on yourself, which I can be. That's a driving force for me often. Yeah, I'm trying to really live a life that has less expectations so I can be a bit more present. Because I think goals and dreams are one thing, but expectations I think keep you from living in the present, which I think keeps me from enjoying something that I'm working so hard to enjoy.

SPEAKER_03 5:48

Yeah, that's interesting. I think about that. Um, and I wonder, I'm asking Renee whether it's also about making sure you're more focused on execution. So you have your dream, but if you now you're bogged down by expectation as opposed to getting busy with the work that gets you there and not critiquing it every moment that you're working on it, that that you can be more productive.

SPEAKER_05 6:12

Absolutely. And I think it's hard to realize like I've become my own boss, and that's taken a lot of time and a lot of change. And I don't take it for granted that this moment exists in my life and I want to just embrace it and enjoy it and realize I am creating a TV show because I managed to figure that out. I'm excited about it and very grateful for it.

SPEAKER_03 6:35

Thank you, and congratulations.

Money Fears And Friend Support

SPEAKER_03 6:38

Renee, I really appreciate how you called out that you had times in your life where bills had to be paid. I'm interested in your insights around how you navigated the economic realities and also made the decision at a certain point that I'm all in on this and I'm going to take this opportunity at this moment in my life to see how far I can get when I fully invest in this work.

SPEAKER_05 7:03

It was really hard to do that. A lot of actors have like a day job and their career. It's very hard not to, especially in Canada. It's not a guaranteed, you can be the lead on a show one day, and the next day you're out for a radio ad like every other actor in Toronto. And honestly, when I did change my life around and went all in, it was really scary because I had no income. I had no fallback. But uh a dear friend of mine, Petra Lacko, one day she said, you know, is it just that you are worried about money? Is that the only thing keeping you from going for this? And I said, Well, yeah, I guess so. And she said, I I can lend you money. And I here I am, 46, really humbling. It's very touching, changed my life. I tell her this all the time. I have a really strong group of friends that love me, that believe in me, that want me to succeed. I want them to as well. And uh she lent me money and it was life-changing that she did that for me. And I also had a dear friend, he's an actor in Newfoundland, Joel Hines. He also gave me a beautiful place to land. He said to me, You're moving home, just stay at my house. And I stayed at his house rent-free for months because he wanted me to have a safe place to land. It was like the world just started opening up. This huge burden was lifted. I booked a play in Sudbury, I booked a play in PEI, and I took a chance on myself with help from friends, really.

SPEAKER_03 8:26

It's a beautiful story and the ways in which we can lift each other up in practical ways and emotional ways as well. Because what I'm hearing, more than the thumb to get you started and get you home and get your foundation was also helping me shift your mental model. Can you share your perspective on why your career is gaining momentum in in in your I I want to avoid saying later years, Renee.

SPEAKER_05 8:55

I would say it's a lot of self-awareness, a lot of, I think you care less and less as you get older about what other people think. My network of people, my friends, my family, I care deeply what they think they think of me. But the noise of what someone who I don't know thinks of me, I've sort of left that. I don't think about that anymore. When you get rid of that noise, I really believe you can become successful and do what you want to do, and you can do it with kindness. I had a dear friend give me a dog. She said, I think you need a dog. I said, Oh no, no, no, no. I'm single, I'm in Toronto, I'm hustling, I'm working at the bar, I'm trying to be in writers' rooms. I can't do this. And she said, Where are you gonna put all that love? Best question anyone's ever asked me. And she got me a dog, my little dog, George Michael. He gets me out of the house, he gets me exercising. So those are things I think that help me keep moving forward and have momentum because I kind of get outside with him all the time whenever I'm feeling too much in my head, and it helps.

SPEAKER_03 9:53

Thank you. And I love the themes that you continue to come back to around challenging ourselves, pushing through when it's uncomfortable, the the family we inherit, the family we create. All of the ways in which we can sustain our motivation, our well-being, our creativity.

SPEAKER_05 10:08

Oh, definitely. And I think creating anything is such a collaborative process, right? You're not on a lone island. Learning how to write is a really lonely process. And I'm a very active, very social person. I like to talk out my ideas and ruminate and walk with my dog and think about it and come back, you know?

SPEAKER_03 10:25

Thank you. Any personal reflections on the challenges and strengths of navigating our career in one's fifth decade, Renee?

SPEAKER_05 10:36

Work very hard to believe in yourself. I think it's important to celebrate it, to validate it, and to just move forward. But I I like not just brushing past something. I think that's how I navigate it as I get older, definitely. I I'm not ashamed to say, oh my God, look what I just did, or look what we just did, or oh my gosh, I'm here in Mexico and I get to write this. I think patting yourself on the back is not a bad thing, really.

Menopause And Creative Agency

SPEAKER_03 11:00

Renee, you've spoken previously about the challenges of navigating paramenopause while ramping up your career as well. I just wonder if you have any insights or just to help the rest of us uh feel better about more navigating that personally.

SPEAKER_05 11:16

Well, it's really interesting, you know. I I have so many strong, beautiful, vibrant women in my life that are in their late 40s, 50s, brilliant women. And it's just such a shame. It's just this weird that at when we're at our finest, menopause hits, and it really shot me down. I was in a writer's room of my own. I had I was working on a show that I was trying to create a half hour for, what odds, actually. And at the same time, I was in a class where I was learning procedural writing, like cop shows, doctor shows, stuff like that. I was constantly sweating. I wasn't sleeping, I had night sweats, my I couldn't remember anything. And it was terrifying. I mean, I felt terrified. I'm like, my brain is broken, my body's broken, what's happening? So I fought tooth and nail to sort of come out of that. Um, I went on HRT. You gotta go easy on yourself. Take down the workload and take down the pressure and just realize your body and your mind are going through something. And instead of fighting it, I started writing for myself 10 years ago to have some agency. And menopause was on high, not getting any acting work at all. And yeah, I just sort of went, okay, I guess the universe is conspiring to make me a better writer. Universe is conspiring for me to slow down. And so I did a lot of just thinking and not pushing myself too hard. And I think that really helped me. And now I've come out the other side.

SPEAKER_03 12:42

Thank you. You've been generous with your candor about the real life struggles, and all while you're expanding your career through your own agency. Are you able to tell us what you're currently working on?

SPEAKER_05 12:54

I'm writing a limited series called The Gut set in Newfoundland. It's about a seasoned television actress who plays a TV cop. She gets fired from her long-running cop show, ends up back in Newfoundland, and gains a sense of purpose while solving the a real life crime in a community. It's very Fargo meets Mary Lee's town. I'm diving deep into the Newfoundland landscape and not just the tourism landscape of Newfoundland, but the underbelly of it.

SPEAKER_03 13:24

Congratulations, Renee. I'm so grateful to you and for your perseverance and what you're looking into, the creative scene to make us all very proud.

Diane Leaves Corporate For Family

SPEAKER_03 13:36

It's so inspiring to hear about the journey that led Renee to her success at this point in her career. Next, we'll be hearing from Diane Loves. I'm excited to be speaking with Diane Lovies. Diane enjoyed a fulfilling career as an executive in financial services marketing before leaving her job to focus on her family and volunteering to support her community. Now using her strengths and skills, Diane is re-entering the workforce and pursuing a new career. Diane, can you talk us through the key decision points you faced throughout your career today and how you've navigated them?

SPEAKER_04 14:15

Well, a long, long time ago, I was in financial services marketing, started as a project manager there, and worked my way up to AVP level, loved it, but I also realized very quickly on that I'm an all or nothing worker. So when I was there, I was there until what was needed to be done got done. Wasn't very good at putting in boundaries or timelines. Time just didn't exist. I just carry on until what was required got done. Took a lot of pride in my work and loved it. And I loved financial services because it was technical, complicated. And it was also an opportunity to continually learn about more products and the nuances of it. So when we decided to have children, whether you like it or not, priorities do change. So shortly after that, my husband and I talked and we decided that it might be better for family life if I was home and he had income. Our circumstances were such that I had a cap on earnings and he really didn't. So we thought that would probably work the best. And we also knew that at any point, if I had to go back to work, I could. With the children, we also had those severe food allergies that required a bit more navigating, a bit more research, and a little bit more engagement, as well as a bit of a different mindset with the children, in that we need to really help them understand that at the end of the day, those allergies are theirs. It's their responsibility. You build frameworks around it all and you put in some safeguards. They have to do what they need to do to safeguard against that and whatever they're comfortable with. So that was kind of an interesting aspect of raising. And it also required a little more work on everything we did, navigating to make sure everything was safe. But we're also setting up that approach with them in being able to manage it on themselves.

SPEAKER_03 16:09

Thank you. Yeah. So I appreciate that that insight into the decisions and also appreciating just your own assessment of yourself that you're kind of all or nothing about work and when the priorities shifted, then recognizing what was going to work best for you and for your family. With that, can you tell me about the decision to return to paid employment?

SPEAKER_04 16:36

The decision to return to paid employment was not necessarily a decision. It was more an evolution. I did volunteer for a long time and it was great, but I did feel that it was often based on the context of what was going on in our lives and where I saw opportunity to improve or help or build some community through volunteerism. As the kids became more independent, there came a point where I did feel like I needed something that was engaging and keeping my mind active, but also something that helped me feel fulfilled. And I've always had an interest in travel. So the travel industry seemed like a good fit that would fit around flexibility, but also capitalizing on this ability to learn and then organize information and package that back for the end user to in a usable format.

SPEAKER_03 17:27

So, with that, how how are you finding the return? It's travel flexibility, entrepreneurial environment. What are you enjoying? What's been trickier than you might have expected? The entrepreneurialism I don't love.

SPEAKER_04 17:41

I'm not an actual salesperson and I don't really see travel agent as that. It's more consultive. When I work with clients, I like to put myself in their position and understand their priorities so that the solution I provide back to them is reflected in that. And money has really never been my driving factor. It's more self-actualization and organizing and taking a lot of information and repackaging that in a usable format. It just seemed like a natural fit that would allow me to work at any time and from home around my schedule or client's schedule while I could still prioritize our family schedule. The other area that really interested me for travel is that I'm an experiential learner. So going someplace and learning is always more impactful. And it's also something that is really enjoyable. I also lived in Spain for a year in high school on an exchange program. Got posted with an incredible family that I was still in contact with. That type of role.

SPEAKER_03 19:16

Thank you. And you're someone who has always loved to go deep to plan your own trips and those around you. Yes?

SPEAKER_04 19:25

Yeah, research is basically my go-to spot. Part of family life and priorities as time has moved on and our children have gotten a bit older was also sandwich generation, meaning my parents also started having some needs. My dad got sick a number of years ago. And the first thing I naturally do is I research if I don't understand something. I become a little bit obsessed and I just kind of dive in on anything and everything. I talk to people about things, I read stuff, I look at videos. Again, the travel industry was a good way of capitalizing and using that strength.

SPEAKER_03 20:03

And with your children's allergies, that was that also a driving force for taking control of planning itineraries for your family?

SPEAKER_04 20:12

Yeah, we we wanted to make sure that we were traveling with our children as they grew up to get them exposure to different experiences. With the allergies, travel becomes a little bit more complicated because you need to safeguard against the possibility of an allergic reaction. When they do happen, it does require medication and a trip to emerge. It also tends to be one of the things that you remember most about a trip or an experience, unfortunately. So you try your best to avoid those. Unfortunately, they're not completely avoidable.

Returning To Work With New Priorities

SPEAKER_04 20:48

Mistakes do happen. But in planning travel, again, this was another big driver that, you know, it required more research, it required more organization, more planning to make sure we were safeguarding. Um, so just like a simple example is um when we travel, we rarely do hotel rooms. We almost always do apartments so that we have that ability to make most of our meals. Having said that, there's also benefits to all of these things. I do enjoy cooking, but it also meant that you could go to the local grocery store and learn a little bit more about the culture of that area and with the different product offerings and different terminology. And that element of it is kind of fun. But you do have to plan and be aware and research some of these things before you hit the road.

SPEAKER_03 21:34

Amazing. And now you're helping lots of other people plan their trips and leveraging your strengths in that regard. Do you have any advice for those who they'd like to return to the labor market, but they're feeling nervous about it. They're feeling intimidated, may not even know where to where to begin.

SPEAKER_04 21:49

It's really about priorities, returning to the workforce at a different stage in life. You will see things through a different lens and you have to pay attention to those. Ideally, you want to. Find something that can can still allow for those priorities to remain priorities, whether it's flexibility around schedules or or other needs. Working from home is an opportunity now as a result of COVID that we didn't necessarily have before, which is actually really nice. And the other big thing is, is as you move through life, you better understand what your strengths and weaknesses are. So it gives you the opportunity to look at those, reflect, and try to find work or paid employment opportunities that capitalize on the strengths, minimize those weaknesses so that you can find something that you enjoy and is more fulfilling and works better for not only your strengths, but also your lifestyle. A new endeavor is always nerve-wracking and it can take some time to overcome that fear. But it's not necessarily just one step or one decision. It's often an evolution that pushes you towards that. And every day that you're taking on that new venture learning is one more day under your belt to getting a handle on it and overcoming that fear and becoming good at something and moving towards what your goal or fulfillment or or needs are in taking on that new role. Probably the easiest thing is just to talk to people who might be in a similar role and talk through some of what they like, what they don't like, maybe reflect on some of the things that you really enjoy that you find motivating and interesting to see if there's opportunity for a role in those areas as well. There's always opportunity to reflect on some of the things you've done, whether it's volunteerism, paid employment, focus on the things that you enjoyed about those experiences and the areas that again motivated you and kept you engaged to try to capitalize on those. Actually, another area where I felt a little bit stuck, and my children have gotten a bit older, they're their late teens, early 20s. And I'm not ashamed to say that where I was feeling nervous or needed some help, I went to them and I said, You're out there recruiting and you're out there networking. What do you suggest? Or what are you seeing? Or how would you approach this? Or what should I do in this situation? And they've actually been amazing at giving me some guidance and feedback on what to do. Everything from like interview prep to the tell me about yourself question to different media outlets and social media and what it's for and how you can help promote yourself. So, you know, those those kids and family members often have a lot of information and knowledge and insights that can help you get over that hump. My kids have been a huge support for me.

SPEAKER_03 24:59

That's lovely. Thank you. I think that's also just an important reminder of those around us will often know what our skills are, what our strengths are that we may be overlooking for ourselves as well. Yeah, for sure. Uh it's been a short conversation for those who may be interested in connecting with you and getting travel advice. How are they best to do so?

SPEAKER_04 25:19

Probably the best way to reach me would be through my email. It's D lovvies. L-O-V is in Victor, E Y S is in Sam at expediacruises.com.

SPEAKER_03 25:29

Amazing. Thank you, Diane. It's so great to hear about what is sure to be a rewarding next chapter in Diane's life. Next, we'll be hearing from Audley Stevenson.

Audley Builds A Passion Portfolio

SPEAKER_03 25:42

Really pleased to invite Audley Stevenson into this conversation. With over 30 years of experience in public service and leadership, Audley has dedicated his career to inspiring and guiding others from his roles in sports management to his work as a speaker, facilitator, and host. He empowers audience to live boldly and to lead with purpose. It lines really well with what we're talking about today. Odley is the author of the forthcoming book, Living Your Best Audacious Life: How Unleashing Your Inner Greatness Can Change the World, which expands on the ideas he shares through his speaking and podcasting. Audley is so pleased to have this conversation with you today. I think it's fair to describe your career as having a few twists and turns. We worked together a number of years ago, and I recall at that time you taking a part-time job on top of your full-time job to get closer to the basketball court. I was wondering if you can walk us through your journey.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

Well, first off, it's so good to connect with you again, Pauline, after all these years. And it's fitting that we're having this kind of conversation considered how we were so connected through work. I think for me, the starting point has always been not being afraid to try something. Just give it a shot and see. I started uh at the federal government 30 years ago, and I remember vividly going into employment center offices, and I remember going in, I saw this sign and said, Hey, do you want to work with the federal government? And I remember literally going, Oh, let's try and see. And I think that that's try and see filtered in everything that I do. And it's funny you bring up the basketball because that was a purely selfish, I want to be close to the game of basketball. So the story behind that is I've always been a basketball fan. I was a fan of the rappers long before they won a championship. And so because of that, I was always really good about publicly announcing that, making sure that people knew that I loved basketball. Because anytime that someone had a set of tickets that they couldn't use, they called me. And so if there's 41 home games, that season before I started working, I probably went like 30 games. And I remember when the season ended, I remember saying, I don't know how I can go back to watching basketball on TV. Because I knew I couldn't afford to go out and buy tickets and get seasoned tickets or anything like that. And I had friends that had worked there, and then there's some people who were got accustomed to always seeing me there. And then one day someone said, Why don't you just get a job? And I'm like, Oh, that's a great idea. And so I applied to be an usher at the Air Canada Center solely for the purpose so I can see basketball. Being an usher there, you also got to kind of see behind the scenes stuff and you got to meet people, and and you got you just got to get the exposure was just different than anything that you get on TV. And what that did, it really opened up my eyes. So interests I didn't really think much about, or directions I hadn't considered previously. And one of them was broadcasting. When I was in high school, I remember graduating, I'm going to be a sports broadcaster. Didn't happen that way. I didn't, I think I remember correctly. I was supposed to apply, and I said, Oh, I'm not gonna apply yet. And then I decided to apply at the last minute, and it was like you're too late. And I'm like well, I'm not gonna apply to your school, I don't want to be a sports broadcaster. But then I'm down there, and you know, you get to meet like, you know, one of the reporters who I became very friendly with because you're just there and they, you know, you're you're exposed. And so the one of the reporters there, he and I became friends and we started talking. And he worked at the Score Television Sports Network. And he goes, Oh, we take interns all the time. I'm like, cool. Why don't I try? So here's a theme again. Let me let's give it a try. Applied it. He took me out as an usher, and I worked in the archives area, and I'm slinging VHS tapes, learning about broadcasting of the inner workings. And at the end of that term, I had met uh one of the on-air reporters, his name was Dave Mandonka. And Dave Mandonka was a basketball fan like myself, and so we naturally hit it off because we're Raptors fans. So that relationship that we developed eventually led to us doing this thing called podcasting. And we wanted to talk about basketball. And we started this podcast, it was in 2008. This is long before podcasting was podcasting. And it was it was again on that strength of hey, let's try and see what happens. That podcast ran for about five years, got like a million downloads. It was just crazy because we had no idea what we were doing, but we just let's just try and see, anyways. And one of the coolest things that came out of that is we eventually we actually got credentials by the Toronto Raptors. So now we are in their locker room, interviewing their players. So in 2011, so we've been doing this podcast for five years, the NBA has what's called a lockout. No basketball, nothing's happening. And so it's just so happened that the same year that the NBA was on lockout, there was a brand new basketball league that was starting in Canada called NBL Canada. And they were full steam ahead and ready to go. And I thought, well, wait a second, I've got all this NBA experience. I need to get my basketball fixed somehow. Why don't I go to them and pitch myself as this podcaster that can do all the NBA stuff? But I've got the backing credential because everyone's seen me in the Raptors locker room. They'll take me. Well, they did. I started on as a volunteer and I started doing similar type of work with them. And then I started working in the communications, uh, then I started working in their public relations area, and I just started building on what I was doing. Six years after the time I approached them as a volunteer, I was appointed the commissioner of NBL Canada. Blessings upon blessings, didn't see it coming, but it did so much for me. And it really allowed me to expand myself. And so now, you know, we've got this pro league. I'm traveling to the Maritimes and across Canada at different points, promoting the game of basketball. And so from that, it's just been a journey, and the speaking has naturally come out of the work that I've done. The podcasting, I you know, throughout the years, I've had various different ones. My current podcast, uh, it's called the Audacious Living Podcast. I started that podcast because I was in the pandemic, and I had lost basketball. Uh, you know, when when the when the plug got pulled on all of us, I literally felt myself going through this state of depression. Like, what do I do? Hey, I'm a podcaster. I've always been doing this thing, I can do it again. And so I jumped back into podcasting, but I said I didn't want a podcast about basketball. I wanted to do something different. And I did this analysis of my life, my successes, my milestones, my accomplishments. And I saw this red thread of audacity. And like, that's it. Audacity was got me to this point. And that's what birthed the Audacious Living podcast. And I'd I think I had like 600 episodes since then, and it's done all really like all kinds of cool things. Like I said, the book I have coming out, and um just yeah, it's just it's just given me so much life. And and oh yeah, I still have a full-time job, by the way.

SPEAKER_03 32:08

Ali, thank you so much for sharing that journey. And there's so much in there that I love. You talked about declaring your interest and making sure everyone knew what your passion about, finding ways to get as close to it as as possible, and experimenting with different ways to stay close to your passion. It I just love hearing your journey, Ali. I think it's interesting for people too when you think about the the different paths that we can choose. And you did maintain your professional full-time career supporting the Canadian public, and you pursued your passion for sport, your passion for public speaking, more than off the side of your desk. You you really built out in a very robust way through multiple channels over your career part-time while being a motivated and attentive parent as well. Can you share with us what motivates you at this juncture?

SPEAKER_00 33:03

When I go back to the discovery of what I wanted to podcast about, one of the main reasons, like I say, why I did 600 episodes, because I'm passionate about it. And that passion comes because it's something that I I truly, truly believe in. And because I had seen many, many instances of audacity played out in my life, I just didn't label it, Pauline. I didn't know, hey, you're being audacious. I was just being oddly Stevenson. And it wasn't until I was able to label it and see it, I was like, oh, this thing has always been there. And so in my book, the second chapter, it's called The Roots of My Audacity. And I talk about my parents. I talk to them each

Audacity As A Life North Star

SPEAKER_00 33:44

individual because the fact I am who I am makes total sense when I look at them individually. My mother just never quit, never die and keep going. People love everyone loves her, she's just adored. There's so much about her that is purely the definition of audacity. My father, who also is a character in his journey of audacity, not as pronounced as my mom per se, but very, very strong. My parents had split up when I was only six months old. And um, so I grew up not knowing my father. And we were working together, it was in around that time, it sort of reappeared in my life. And when you stop for a second, just to that alone, like he was the one that reached out to me. A son who's he's never had any contact in 20 plus years, he's reached out, not having not having any idea how I would react, how to respond, if I'd receive him, if I'd accept him. No idea. And then here's the thing how often do we say, I want to reach out, but too much time has passed. I'll just let it go, right? But the more audacious step is like, you know what, I'm gonna reach out anyways. And that's exactly what he did. And so when I when I sort of talk about the roots of my audacity, I look to those two individuals as key contributors. And now that I've labeled this thing, I understand where it's come from, I'm like, oh my gosh, I need to be very intentional about what I do with it. And so I want to show examples to my daily living, but I also want to encourage others to do the same. You all have to be audacious because it can it can bring about so many wonderful benefits in your life. And I truly, truly believe that the gifts that we have inside of us, they naturally are there to inspire and impact other people. And so my motivation continues to be just that do everything I possibly can to get people excited about life and contribute in a positive fashion.

SPEAKER_03 35:21

What I think is unique and special about your approach, oddly, is it's not only about being bold. It's about meeting people where they're at. You have this incredible gift and a spirit of generosity where you're willing to see where someone's at, right? Um, accept that and presume positive intent. And I've seen you time and time again influence people and bring them to a better place.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

Thank you. Thank you. I'm very proud of the fact that I was doing it unknowingly, but it was still being authentic to myself. Quick story: a few years ago, someone sent me a message on social media. And they said, I don't know if you remember me when I was at the Air Canada Center, and you know, we came to the basketball game, we had such a great time, and you took care of us. And I'm like, all right, cool. So I looked at the person and I didn't recognize them. And then she sent me a photo of her and I. And I looked at the photo and I said, Yeah, that's definitely me. I still don't know who that person is. Like I looked at, I didn't know who the person was. But there's a part of me, I actually feel good about the fact that I was operating freely of myself. I wasn't conscious saying, I'm gonna meet this person today and I'm gonna have an impact. They're gonna remember the rest of their lives, and I was just operating freely and naturally, and that it's such a great place to be in because you're not thinking about it. And so I can understand why I don't remember her specifically. Not that she was less memorable, I was just being myself.

SPEAKER_03 36:50

I don't know that it comes to everyone naturally, though, to meet people where they're at and to always be as generous. I welcome your thoughts on the skills that go along with that. In many ways, I think the skills that you use within your full-time job really support that as well. It's it's a roll around enabling community from a systemic perspective. And then that ability to leverage what seems to come naturally, but I also appreciate that that you appreciate that there's a history of support that you've had around you that that's brought you to be able to embrace situations and be bold enough to pursue them.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Yeah, no, the the word intent comes to mind, Pauline, as you speak, but what do you intend on achieving? Like what is your North Star? I think self-awareness is a starting point for any positive change or any positive impact because you start to find the things that give you joy. You know, it is very possible to have a happiness during periods of grief. It's very, very possible. I had a friend once, he was going through very, very terrible divorce, and he was not in a good place, and he loves just being around family. And I remember he asked me to take a photo, and I'm taking this photo, and in that moment, it was like 20 people in this picture, and he had the biggest, broadest smile of everyone. And afterwards, I looked at him, I said, here we're supposed to be in a point where this is the lowest point in your life ever. And look how happy you are. It's because you're around family. And so the point is, you can still find happiness in those moments. It's not going to make your problems disappear, but that's the process and how you start to get out of that valley. And so it goes right back to who are you, what motivates you, what excites you, what do you love in life, what fulfills you, and find a way to stay as close to those things as possible. In the same fashion, I found a way to stay close to basketball.

SPEAKER_03 38:34

Thank you, Hodley. Uh, what's your next chapter?

SPEAKER_00 38:38

Retirement. You know, I was fortunate enough to start my public service career at a young age, and I've now find myself at the other end of the spectrum where I've got a whole life ahead of me and so much that's at my disposal. It seems that all these little side projects and the writing and the podcasts and the speaking, I'd like to be able to say I planned it this way and was preparing for this eminent retirement, but it wasn't. And I'm just really excited. I definitely can draw for my 30 years. And when the chapter closes, I'll absolutely look back with fondness and appreciation and gratitude for all that I had done. Uh, but then eagerly look forward to the next chapter.

SPEAKER_03 39:13

Thank you so much for your time, Audley. It's been great to connect and to hear your insights.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

Thank you for having me.

Reflections And How To Connect

SPEAKER_03 39:22

Thank you for joining me for the reflections of these three amazing people who were kind enough to share their stories. These are the conversations we created the next chapter for. Discussions that help us rethink how we grow and adapt throughout our career. Do anything stand out for you? What are your own thoughts on your next chapter? I'm Pauline James and I'd love to hear your perspective. Connect with me on LinkedIn or through our Anchor HR community. Thank you again for listening and for being a part of these conversations. While every career journey is different, I hope these stories have encouraged you to reflect on what your own next chapter might hold.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

Thanks for listening to the HR Chat Show. If you enjoyed this episode, why not subscribe and listen to some of the hundreds of episodes published by HR Gazette? And remember, for what's new in the world of work, subscribe to the show, follow us on social media, and visit hrgazette.com.